Tenant has any rights when house being sold?

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#1234019 10-Feb-2015 11:30

About photos.

We also rejected them taking photos of the place with our stuff inside (as it just shows people what you have).
The landlord had photos of the place empty that he used to rent it our before so i told the agent to use those and that no photos of the inside are to be taken while we were still living there. The agent kicked up about it but I just said that there are photos of the place empty and that no major work has been done to the inside so they can see what the place is like and if they want to have a look come to the open home.

Glassboy

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#1234038 10-Feb-2015 12:04

TeaLeaf:
when you rent a house by moral, you are handing over right to access. otherwise how is a tenant expected to gain any benefit from a tenancy, especially in an overly inflated market.

Not by "moral", by the Residential Tenancy Act 1986.

TeaLeaf

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#1234039 10-Feb-2015 12:04

Yep I agree to most of what you have said MrToken and some of what Lias suggested.

Once a week Midday on a Sunday with a return of our letting fee as we clearly wouldnt have moved in.

Unfortunately for them the only photos they have are from when the previous tenant moved out and semi trashed the place. Is going to cost them thousands to repair. We have complained of things not working but they have done nothing.

The only way I can see attitudes changing is a mass correction in the bubble, with landlords not feeling like "we own the property" and more like "we hope you have a nice stay".

I truely believe some investors think its normal for house prices to increase every year, especially as it started in early 2000. Thats 14 years so you could even have 40 year olds expecting that to be the norm. Then you have the insanely optimistics who truely believe a mass reduction in house pricing is impossible or that it will simply plateu, sigh. Investment seminar baby bankers.

When the government stop protecting this bubble ala 2008 GFC, we may see things swing back to a balance of people being honest and up front about their intentions.

TeaLeaf

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#1234041 10-Feb-2015 12:09

Not by "moral", by the Residential Tenancy Act 1986.

Hehe true too. I just didnt want to rip the reality of the situation and move onto why I feel disgruntled, not angry or hostile, but lied too. Morally if people lie, thats cool if it doesnt hurt people imo. If thats their ethics. But when its done to gain financial benefit at the cost of an honest persons finance and personal situation, well in the old days tenants didnt use a tribunal to give a landlord their piece of mind :-).

The funny thing is, I really feel for this landlord. I think they have made some bad mistakes and in my heart I really want them to come out of it ok.

trig42

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#1234062 10-Feb-2015 12:55

mrtoken: About photos.

We also rejected them taking photos of the place with our stuff inside (as it just shows people what you have).
The landlord had photos of the place empty that he used to rent it our before so i told the agent to use those and that no photos of the inside are to be taken while we were still living there. The agent kicked up about it but I just said that there are photos of the place empty and that no major work has been done to the inside so they can see what the place is like and if they want to have a look come to the open home.

Haha, but then they can't come in and photograph everything with the wide angle lens that it seems all real estate photos are taken with (to make a little place look bigger).

But, OP, stick to your guns on the no photos thing - nothing of yours anyway. Of course, you can be flexible if they are regarding return of letting fee or reduction in rent :).

Wheelbarrow01

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#1234188 10-Feb-2015 14:58

I assume you rented the property through an agent? My understanding is a letting fee can only be charged by a letting agent/management company, not by a private landlord.

BTR

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#1234255 10-Feb-2015 16:50

30 mins for one day a week isn't a huge ask and I certainly wouldn't say its worth a 1/7th drop in rent. Go out and have a coffee or something, its not like they are having the house for the entire day.

The landlord being the owner of the house has a right to list the property and have open homes, I have been in this situation myself and just want out for an hour or two.

Being difficult isn't going to help your situation, work out a time that suits you best and just deal with it. If you not happy then ask to be let out of your agreement and fine somewhere else to live.

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TeaLeaf

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#1234263 10-Feb-2015 17:16

you are missing the point BTR and are assuming my situation is like yours and that i am being difficult. go out for a coffee, pffft, that really does show you havnt read what i have said re personal circumstance. in fact i am making it very easy for them.

i wont bother trying to explain it any further, its personal and taking money for a leasing fee knowing it would be difficult to organise viewing weekly given this personal circumstance in 10 weeks time is just not kosha nor moral let alone the agency being hostile while i have been flexible. the financial and security issues are a minor annoyance.

it essentially throws leases out the window from a tenants perspective and allows agencies to take your money and sell a house while you are paying the mortgage.

nobody i know including agency friends disagree, its very flippant and insensitive to assume the issue is because im being "difficult".

of course i will be pursuing another house, i want nothing to do with this agency.

thank you for those that can see the passed their assumptions and shared some support and understanding. i will continue to work with the landlord to help them best i can and ignore the agency.

tripp

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#1234340 10-Feb-2015 21:12

TeaLeaf: you are missing the point BTR and are assuming my situation is like yours and that i am being difficult. go out for a coffee, pffft, that really does show you havnt read what i have said re personal circumstance. in fact i am making it very easy for them.

i wont bother trying to explain it any further, its personal and taking money for a leasing fee knowing it would be difficult to organise viewing weekly given this personal circumstance in 10 weeks time is just not kosha nor moral let alone the agency being hostile while i have been flexible. the financial and security issues are a minor annoyance.

it essentially throws leases out the window from a tenants perspective and allows agencies to take your money and sell a house while you are paying the mortgage.

nobody i know including agency friends disagree, its very flippant and insensitive to assume the issue is because im being "difficult".

of course i will be pursuing another house, i want nothing to do with this agency.

thank you for those that can see the passed their assumptions and shared some support and understanding. i will continue to work with the landlord to help them best i can and ignore the agency.

this is why you should always take a place as fixed for <insert time here>
When our place comes up we tend to do 18/24 months. That way if the place sells we stay on or may get a nice payout if they sold it as empty.

Jase2985

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#1234349 10-Feb-2015 21:44

What concessions have you given? your letting fee?

what time have you made avaliable to show the home to perspective buyers for the landlord?

Yes its dificult for you as you have someone with a disability in the house but work out a time that best suits you for an open home (sat or sun) then let the landord know and go from there

you have to give them a chance to sell the place and that's the concession you have to make even if it is 1/2 hour a week for an open home.

dacraka

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#1234376 10-Feb-2015 22:42

My recent thread is quite similar to your original post, have you read the entire post here?

I asked what everyone thought was "reasonable", on average, the Geekzone community said that actually two viewings per week was reasonable to them (sure some said that one per week or one per fortnight was reasonable to them, however the majority said two per week).

If you choose a periodic tenancy, the widely known risk with that option is that you can get kicked out sooner than a fixed term tenancy. When you accepted the periodic tenancy, you should have known that there was a risk that this could happen. That is why fixed term tenancies are better as you can't get kicked out as easy.

If they encouraged you to go with the periodic tenancy, then in my personal opinion I think that the owners of the house had a feeling that it was going to go on the market soon, otherwise they would have chosen a fixed term tenancy.

It is a fact that you can refuse both photographs of your personal property and also refuse all open homes. However you will then be required by law to make the place available with private viewings. I could not find anywhere in the law that stated how much time the real estate agent needed to give you before a viewing. The real estate agent that is selling my current rental says 24 hours is reasonable. I personally would have picked that 48 hours is reasonable because of the "property manager 48 hour notice thing", however the law doesn't state 48 hours, but instead only states "reasonable notice" so technically you can't do anything about that and I would just keep it to 24 hours notice.

The owner of my place agreed to a $20 per week rent reduction. Personally I think that is not enough, however that law states that they don't have to give any rent reduction at all! Therefore I just had to stick with the small $20 per week rent reduction.
However, you could say you don't want photos taken of your possessions and you don't want open homes and only private viewings with 24 hours notice and try to get a larger rent reduction/refund of agent fees etc, but that is kind of like bribery in my opinion and isn't the best way to go (just giving you all options here!)

Regarding you being present during a viewing, the law states that you have the option of being present during a viewing. You do not have to leave the property during a viewing! Unfortunately the law doesn't say that you will be compensated for this kind of interruption.

Believe me, I know what you are going though as I am going through it right now as well (I have been since the house was on the market since October last year!) and I hate it! But unfortunately you need to give them 1-2 viewings per week and they need to give you at least 24 hours notice.

I also believe you have the right to say no to morning viewings and say you are only available for afternoon viewings for example. Also I believe you can say no to viewings after 7pm at night as that is too late.

I have been looking for a new place to live, however the current rental market is way over priced at the moment which is why I have not found another place to move to yet.

Baracus

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#1234401 11-Feb-2015 05:20

BTR: 30 mins for one day a week isn't a huge ask and I certainly wouldn't say its worth a 1/7th drop in rent. Go out and have a coffee or something, its not like they are having the house for the entire day.

Consider situations where the tenant has made plans for the weekend, so 30 minutes of having to be in the house (I would never leave my stuff unattended) while the open home goes on might mean cancelling longer duration plans. Examples:
- Spending a day visiting family/friends in the same city, now you can only spend a half day, if that.
- Visiting another city/country for the weekend. That's 2-4 days impacted.
- Can't stay up late the night before in case it causes you to oversleep or be too hung over for that 30 minute period.
- If you have weekend work, does that mean you have to turn down some shifts?

And if they're like me, I tend to book lots of weekend getaways during summer months in advance. So there's a real conflict between allowing the open home to go ahead unsupervised (can't trust agents to supervise), or the cost of cancelled bookings.

networkn

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#1234477 11-Feb-2015 09:15

Baracus:
BTR: 30 mins for one day a week isn't a huge ask and I certainly wouldn't say its worth a 1/7th drop in rent. Go out and have a coffee or something, its not like they are having the house for the entire day.

Consider situations where the tenant has made plans for the weekend, so 30 minutes of having to be in the house (I would never leave my stuff unattended) while the open home goes on might mean cancelling longer duration plans. Examples:
- Spending a day visiting family/friends in the same city, now you can only spend a half day, if that.
- Visiting another city/country for the weekend. That's 2-4 days impacted.
- Can't stay up late the night before in case it causes you to oversleep or be too hung over for that 30 minute period.
- If you have weekend work, does that mean you have to turn down some shifts?

And if they're like me, I tend to book lots of weekend getaways during summer months in advance. So there's a real conflict between allowing the open home to go ahead unsupervised (can't trust agents to supervise), or the cost of cancelled bookings.

Have you read this thread through? This very unlikely applies to him, and secondly, as has been said OVER AND OVER, it's negotiable, if for some reason he couldn't attend one of the viewings he would let them know in advance.

Baracus

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#1234481 11-Feb-2015 09:25

networkn:

Have you read this thread through? This very unlikely applies to him, and secondly, as has been said OVER AND OVER, it's negotiable, if for some reason he couldn't attend one of the viewings he would let them know in advance.

Yes I have. And yes I agree it's negotiable. Just pointing out to those that seemed to think 1/168 was fairer than 1/7. It's not always clear when people are debating the general point or the point specific to the op. It may not also have occurred to the op exactly how much impact it could have. Discussing the idea broadly is beneficial both to the specific instance and in general.

As far as the op is concerned, it doesn't matter if they have currently got something planned or not, it's the opportunity cost involved. One could argue it rules out their ability to partake in spontaneous activities on the day and so lends more credence towards a larger rent reduction than just 1/168. Should it be 1/14? or 1/28? That's something for the two parties to negotiate -- just making sure op has considered the real impact on them before they go into negotiations.

TeaLeaf

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#1234505 11-Feb-2015 10:18

I see it from both sides as I have been in the landlords situation. Its not them I have issue with.

Yes we were encouraged to take periodic, in fact demanded and no we werent advised they were looking to sell. I have no proof of this of course, other than straight out asking the landlord who I am on first name phone call basis with.

Instead of a rent reduction I would be happier with the lease fee back, because I feel it is the agency who have deceived us. Otherwise I will ask for a rent reduction. The landlord is very apologetic and being a fair person may agree. I would have offered an hour every second week with no concession but will manage the logistics weekly.

I think once a week is fine, and they have agreed to my times, so the process starts. Yes its still inconvenient, but now we are in the situation I feel we just have to find a new property even though they are looking for an investor. I have no interest in making them any money or being part of their "good renters", they don't deserve us. Instead they can replace with another like the prior tenant with holes in the walls, broken fitxtures and fittings and appliances and stains in the carpet and parties all night for the close by neighbours. I think when you have owned a home you tend to treat a rental like it is your own.

Of course the rental side of the firm wanted to make money and did a poor job preparing the run down property prior to entry and now the sales team are harassing us for unreasonable requests outside of viewings etc which we will be documenting and advising the landlord of. The bottom line is like any sales company, you can luck out and get the rotten eggs.

Everything will work out, pays to stay positive. Thank you to everyone for the opinions and view points.

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