New electrical fittings

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#2169129 28-Jan-2019 17:39

TheMantis:

gregmcc:

FYI an electrician CANNOT legally sign off homeowners work, only an electrical inspector can

Call me old fashioned if you like but I absolutely will not inspect homeowners work. It's just not worth the hassle.

Me as well. It's usually just so badly done by some one who thinks they know how to do electrical work but reality is when the defects are pointed out it's taken personally

irongarment

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#2169141 28-Jan-2019 18:10

The (professional) electrician who wired my (almost new) house managed to slice a cable whilst cutting out the plaster for an outlet. That has to be repaired before the circuit can be extended. He (or she) also wired my garage door switch too close to the light switch (no barrier for low voltage, tsk tsk). One day it shorted out with a loud popping sound (I'm guessing every time I pushed the button it moved a little). Luckily the AC mains that went into the garage door circuit didn't do any damage, and the circuit breaker tripped quickly.

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

snnet

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#2169145 28-Jan-2019 18:16

irongarment: The (professional) electrician who wired my (almost new) house managed to slice a cable whilst cutting out the plaster for an outlet. That has to be repaired before the circuit can be extended. He (or she) also wired my garage door switch too close to the light switch (no barrier for low voltage, tsk tsk). One day it shorted out with a loud popping sound (I'm guessing every time I pushed the button it moved a little). Luckily the AC mains that went into the garage door circuit didn't do any damage, and the circuit breaker tripped quickly.

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

You should have reported those incidents to energy safety for review.

Calling us lazy and prone to taking shortcuts is a pretty lazy way of describing us actually. I take pride in all of my work thank you very much. There's a lot more to it than running wires and terminating things you know.

irongarment

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#2169146 28-Jan-2019 18:23

No, I'll just pay another electrician to fix the damaged wire. I have no idea who the first electrician was.

There's not really much more than running wires and terminating them. Although I suppose two-way switching is a good example. Now that's pretty tricky.

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#2169151 28-Jan-2019 18:28

irongarment: No, I'll just pay another electrician to fix the damaged wire. I have no idea who the first electrician was.

There's not really much more than running wires and terminating them. Although I suppose two-way switching is a good example. Now that's pretty tricky.

It's more about HOW you terminate them, and what you use to protect circuits. I've run into a vast amount of know it alls who have been in danger of burning their house down with that kind of attitude.

Hopefully you hire someone with half a brain this time and don't go for the cheapest sounding person because you get what you pay for. Reluctance to filing a complaint either suggests what you're saying has another side to it or it was a DIY job.

gregmcc

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#2169153 28-Jan-2019 18:29

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

Domestic electrical work is easy and the majority of non-electricians think that power points and light switches is as had as it gets, The reality is that legal monopoly is there for a reason and the big picture just is not seen or understood by the average person who isn't an electrician.

Take a typical domestic house, wiring up power points is easy, but what size cable should you use, what is the maximum distance you can run the cable before moving up a size, what kind of circuit breaker should you use and why? What kind of test results should you expect when your new power point is up and running?

There is way more to it than twisting some wires into a power outlet......

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#2169156 28-Jan-2019 18:31

Don't underestimate the power of stupidity. Common sense is not so common.
But I do agree electrical work is straightforward and just requires attention to detail to connect everything up correctly and to tighten the screws appropriately.
Considering the horror show I found in my roof after I purchased the house I live in now and was digging into how it was wired.
Best one was 2x 4mm cables and 2.5mm neutral and earth going into a junction box in the roof where it went down to 2.5mm into the wall to power the double oven. Considering the oven is rated 50a my first response was WTF, then told my awesome electrician to replace the circuit with 4mm 4 core all the way. That was a few hundred dollars extra on the bill I hadn't anticipated.

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#2169158 28-Jan-2019 18:37

snnet:
irongarment: No, I'll just pay another electrician to fix the damaged wire. I have no idea who the first electrician was.

There's not really much more than running wires and terminating them. Although I suppose two-way switching is a good example. Now that's pretty tricky.

It's more about HOW you terminate them, and what you use to protect circuits. I've run into a vast amount of know it alls who have been in danger of burning their house down with that kind of attitude.

Hopefully you hire someone with half a brain this time and don't go for the cheapest sounding person because you get what you pay for. Reluctance to filing a complaint either suggests what you're saying has another side to it or it was a DIY job.

It's the first I've heard that there even is somewhere to report it. You shouldn't confuse that with reluctance. However, I am reluctant because I can't be bothered, and I am sure the next electrician will do a good job.

There is nothing more to the story. It was not a diy job. Your suspicion also makes me reluctant to report anything.

And surely it doesn't matter who I hire? Since everyone has to be licensed they are all equally as good as each other, right?

snnet

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#2169160 28-Jan-2019 18:38

BarTender: Don't underestimate the power of stupidity. Common sense is not so common.
But I do agree electrical work is straightforward and just requires attention to detail to connect everything up correctly and to tighten the screws appropriately.
Considering the horror show I found in my roof after I purchased the house I live in now and was digging into how it was wired.
Best one was 2x 4mm cables and 2.5mm neutral and earth going into a junction box in the roof where it went down to 2.5mm into the wall to power the double oven. Considering the oven is rated 50a my first response was WTF, then told my awesome electrician to replace the circuit with 4mm 4 core all the way. That was a few hundred dollars extra on the bill I hadn't anticipated.

The problem is a lot of people either under tighten, overtighten, twist when they shouldn't (shouldnt be working with mains anyway but hey they do) and not twisting and doubling over when they shouldn't, using incorrect fusing, cutting out earths protecting copper pipes, BONDING gas pipes, etc.

On a side note, a 50A oven? with a 4mm 3c+e I'm guessing? what the hell are you cooking lol

irongarment

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#2169162 28-Jan-2019 18:40

gregmcc:

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

Domestic electrical work is easy and the majority of non-electricians think that power points and light switches is as had as it gets, The reality is that legal monopoly is there for a reason and the big picture just is not seen or understood by the average person who isn't an electrician.

Take a typical domestic house, wiring up power points is easy, but what size cable should you use, what is the maximum distance you can run the cable before moving up a size, what kind of circuit breaker should you use and why? What kind of test results should you expect when your new power point is up and running?

There is way more to it than twisting some wires into a power outlet......

Well that's five points to bear in mind. None of them particularly difficult to figure out, so I wouldn't count that as 'way more'.

gregmcc

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#2169165 28-Jan-2019 18:47

irongarment:
gregmcc:

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

Domestic electrical work is easy and the majority of non-electricians think that power points and light switches is as had as it gets, The reality is that legal monopoly is there for a reason and the big picture just is not seen or understood by the average person who isn't an electrician.

Take a typical domestic house, wiring up power points is easy, but what size cable should you use, what is the maximum distance you can run the cable before moving up a size, what kind of circuit breaker should you use and why? What kind of test results should you expect when your new power point is up and running?

There is way more to it than twisting some wires into a power outlet......

Well that's five points to bear in mind. None of them particularly difficult to figure out, so I wouldn't count that as 'way more'.

Domestic is easy, wait until you see commercial, or industrial, most domestic electricians can't do high end commercial or even anything to do with industrial.

Most industrial electricians wont do domestic as they would not lower them selves to the level of a "house basher"

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#2169169 28-Jan-2019 18:53

I don't think all electricians are morons but I have encountered a couple who definitely are. One completely miswired the new build of a friend. There were so many mistakes I can't remember them all. For example, the oven was wired backwards so the wrong switches controlled the wrong elements. The spa bath was also a mess, along with about half the light fittings and power points. Really stupid, amateur stuff. The electrician was a sub-contractor working for the builder.

My step-daughter in Australia encountered something similar in her new flat. The electrician used cheap Chinese crap for switches and power points that disintegrated after a few months. They actually disintegrated. The plastic surrounds crumbled and the switches disappeared into the walls. Several also failed. He also ran random wiring behind the walls so when someone drilled a hole to mount a painting, the drill went straight through the cable, which was simply hanging loose in the wall cavity. The wall had to be broken open, the cable repaired, and the wall replastered. Hardly the mark of a professional.

I think of the horrible case a few years ago where someone got electrocuted while looking for a hot water cylinder leak under his house. It turned out the 'qualified' electrician had wired the cylinder backwards, so the phase side was connected to the cylinder. Then the inspector passed it as okay. Someone sure wasn't doing their job. Maybe it was the same one who wired my friend's house. What do these guys do for the five or six or whatever years it takes them to get qualified?

I don't think most electricians are like this. The ones who post here on Geekzone, in this thread and others, seem to really know what they are talking about and I have nothing but respect for them. But there are some real cowboys out there, regardless of whatever piece of paper they are waving around. Because of the nature of electricity, ordinary consumers are very much at their mercy. This is not a good thing.

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#2169171 28-Jan-2019 18:54

irongarment:
gregmcc:

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

Domestic electrical work is easy and the majority of non-electricians think that power points and light switches is as had as it gets, The reality is that legal monopoly is there for a reason and the big picture just is not seen or understood by the average person who isn't an electrician.

Take a typical domestic house, wiring up power points is easy, but what size cable should you use, what is the maximum distance you can run the cable before moving up a size, what kind of circuit breaker should you use and why? What kind of test results should you expect when your new power point is up and running?

There is way more to it than twisting some wires into a power outlet......

Well that's five points to bear in mind. None of them particularly difficult to figure out, so I wouldn't count that as 'way more'.

sounds like @irongarment is one of these do it all wire up your house in 1mm, and a strip 20mm of cable and jam it in the hole with no twisting or doubling over, thats why you wont make a sparky and no one would sign your stuff off, I Dont sign any one elses work off and i stipulate where my work finishes on the COC.

TheMantis

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#2169176 28-Jan-2019 19:02

I actually conduct off-job training for electrical apprentices and unfortunately a lot of them are very poor academically. Everyone loves to get on the tools and play around but very few give two stuffs about the requirements of electrical legislation. The general standard of testing is just appalling and I routinely fail people multiple times until they can get it right.

irongarment

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#2169178 28-Jan-2019 19:04

sparkz25:
irongarment:
gregmcc:

Frankly, electrical work is not hard. Unfortunately, electricians have a legal monopoly on providing electrical wiring services. I'm sure most of them do a decent job, but they are as lazy and prone to taking short cuts or making mistakes as anyone else.

Domestic electrical work is easy and the majority of non-electricians think that power points and light switches is as had as it gets, The reality is that legal monopoly is there for a reason and the big picture just is not seen or understood by the average person who isn't an electrician.

Take a typical domestic house, wiring up power points is easy, but what size cable should you use, what is the maximum distance you can run the cable before moving up a size, what kind of circuit breaker should you use and why? What kind of test results should you expect when your new power point is up and running?

There is way more to it than twisting some wires into a power outlet......

Well that's five points to bear in mind. None of them particularly difficult to figure out, so I wouldn't count that as 'way more'.

sounds like @irongarment is one of these do it all wire up your house in 1mm, and a strip 20mm of cable and jam it in the hole with no twisting or doubling over, thats why you wont make a sparky and no one would sign your stuff off, I Dont sign any one elses work off and i stipulate where my work finishes on the COC.

Feel free to think what you like. Interesting that electricians get all huffy when someone criticises another of their profession.

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