Solar options for home in 2022.

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Solar options for home in 2022.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 98

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2986254 22-Oct-2022 15:14

Received 3rd quote today out of 5 installers I have contacted so far. Not expecting a quote from 5th installer any longer. The 4th installer is cheapest price as per their email for SMA 6kW inverters with Jinko Panels, but I have asked them to supply me with a proper quote now that I sent them all the required photos of roof, meter box and other details etc as they are out of town, and they do commercial installs mostly incl in Hamilton.

The 3rd Quote's SMA inverter price for each unit $1100 + GST expensive ($4851.53 + GST), and I need 2 of these compared to first quote above which is $3790 + GST for exact same inverter. The panels should also be cheaper than my first quote above in few posts above which is for Trina 390W compared to 410W in 3rd quote's but the 390W are all black panels which carry a decent premium over silver panels like the 410W. The SMA Home Manager 2.0 seems to be priced at around $1700 + GST if compare the difference between first SMA inverter price and the second SMA inverter. Only 1 SMA Home Manager 2.0 is included in price which is a problem as you can read more on below. The third quote's Fronius is like Harrison's if I compared it with their Q-Cell panels with similar warranties. Fronius now includes their energy meter included with their inverters as part of some promo they are currently doing so 2 of these energy meters are included.

SMA support also threw a spanner in the works by stating that Home Manager 2.0 is not compatible with 2 phase connections. It works only with 1 phase and 3 phase connections. I have asked them question and awaiting reply what I put a Home Manager 2.0 in front of each inverter and somehow both these Home Manager 2.0 then connect to the utility meter? I hope they come back with a yes else I need to pick between having a Home Manager 2.0 to see home energy consumption and have smart EV charging energy flow in future vs putting both inverters on single phase, home manager 2.0 now works but I am limited to 5kW total grid export only.

Do whatever you want to do man.

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2988615 27-Oct-2022 11:48

Finally got the quote from cheapest installer that quoted it via email only first. Going with Option 1 and SMA inverters. Price includes SMA Home Manager 2.0 as well which will let me do automation using Shelly switches on washing machine, heat pump dryer, dishwasher, ducted aircon and future EV charger.

The Option 2 from same company is $4300 cheaper for exact same Fronius inverter model solution with better panels warranty compared to Harrisons. Definitely worth getting 4 to 5 quotes! $28500 Fronius setupfrom this company (14.94kWh) vs $32790 by Harrisons for Fronius (12.45kWh). SMA solution is $900 cheaper than Fronius. SMA inverters are due back in stock in November so install will likely happen in December, but they have promised that it should be before Christmas. Comparing the below quote with quote from previous post for same Fronius inverter and the cheaper quote having 2 extra panels in their setup, these guys are $7500 cheaper.

Not sure why they think that annual solar generation is 15,353kWh using SMA inverters vs 17,372kWh using Fronius when both inverter sizes are 6kW each. Option 3 and Option 4 are $900 more expensive using exact same gear (SMA and Fronius) but the panels are 2 high which is more safety equipment and labour work due to 35-degree slope angle of roof. Option1 & Option 2 panels are installed on stack of 3 which leaves more room for growth in future if it ever came to that. There will still be unused 17.5M of Northwest and 24.5M of Southeast roof completely empty that are visible from road which is keeping the wife happy for aesthetics.

Do whatever you want to do man.

CrazyM

110 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2988821 27-Oct-2022 14:54

You can always check your annual solar generation yourself by using https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/. But I agree with you, I see no reason why you would be getting 12-13% more generation by going with Fronius.

With those system specs I would expect you would be probably getting the 17.4MWh yearly generation number. I'm also in the Waipa networks region with 12.3kW of panels on a 10kW 3-phase inverter and according to PVWatts I get 15.3MWh yearly, which also tracks with my inverter statistics.

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2988824 27-Oct-2022 14:58

Thanks @CrazyM

Yeah, I checked both PVWatts and also SMA own SunnyDesignWeb.com website. SMA design website let me pick and align exact panel model number for my address and it came to 19,300kWh yearly. PVWatts reported 18,500kWh.

I spoke with the installer why Fronius numbers were higher than SMA for same size inverter and he made a good guess probably because the design website he used is owned by Fronius hehe so they made their number bigger. I have gone head with the cheapest installer in last post. They do commercial installs mostly 100kWh and up. I will be there biggest residential install. They reckon if Waipa Networks does not screw them around regarding paperwork, then by 1st week of December, I should have the PV system installed.

Do whatever you want to do man.

CrazyM

110 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2988838 27-Oct-2022 15:31

I had covid lockdowns stuff me round so my system that was ordered in September only came online in mid-March.

Those numbers seem quite high for your panel inclinations and there is a lot of difference between calculations. It will be interesting to see which ends up being the most accurate!

Where are you mounting your inverters? I assume they are passively cooled and dont have fans running in them like the Fronius?

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2988841 27-Oct-2022 15:48

@CrazyM do you have a link to share to view your PV generation like on PVOutput or your inverter manufacturer's monitoring website for guests I can view?

We are getting both inverters mounted in the garage wall which is right next to the electrical circuit board. I am buying some F17 grade Formply which is structural grade and black colour to mount in front of the GIB so it will look nice with inverters mounted on that. SMA inverters are passively cooled hence they are quieter compared to older Fronius.

The new Gen 24 Fronius from what I have read online are quieter than their older model as they have a much bigger heatsink and fan in middle of the inverter. Our garage walls are also insulated incl double glazed door there and insurlted garage panel. The inverter location backs on to the laundry room so in future we can place battery on floor there for Solar as Waipa Networks will not let you install battery which backs on to a living space including an office room.

Do whatever you want to do man.

CrazyM

110 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#2988847 27-Oct-2022 16:07

Unfortunately not. I have a Huawei inverter (which I am very happy with) and it uses their FusionSolar monitoring system. This system is quite good and gives me lots of data, but for creating a guest account it only lets you create a web 'kiosk'. This is a live webpage but with very little data, and includes my home address 😅 it looks like below

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2988980 28-Oct-2022 08:35

The fifth installer's quote has also turned up this morning and it's the most expensive of the five received so far. The difference between the cheapest installer and most expensive installer for exact same model panels and inverter is $12k for both their SMA and Fronius solution. $27600 vs $40478 for SMA and $28500 vs $41178 for Fronius.

We have paid a deposit to the cheapest installer. They are filing the DG paperwork with Waipa Networks today so once that's approved and SMA inverters are back in stock in November, we shall be generating our own power.

Do whatever you want to do man.

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#2989079 28-Oct-2022 10:15

@billgates what were the reasons for going with SMA over Fronius? The backup PV points are quite a big benefit for the Fronius Gen24's...

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2989142 28-Oct-2022 11:07

@eonsim Fronius Gen 24's had two advantages over SMA that I could see. A short term and long term. Short term advantage is 2 x 3kW of backup power points as you say, will prob cost an extra $100 to install on top of the existing $900 more that we would have to pay for Fronius setup over SMA. We are going to get a battery inverter and add batteries in 2 years' time. Whether we go with 48V batteries using SMA Sunny Island or Victron MultiPlus II or SMA Sunny Storage with BYD HVS batteries which is 400V stuff is something I need to think about, and it gives me couple of years to save the funds and see what other battery options come out in between. Spending an extra $1000 on Fronius for 2 years of some backup power gain is not worth it for me when we get the battery storage added next.

The long-term advantage of new Gen 24's is that with a paid firmware update (no one knows in NZ what the $ amount is for the upgrade cost), the Gen 24's become Gen 24 + which then adds the hybrid inverter capability to the new Fronius inverter. Reading the specs of the Gen 24+, the cutover time from a blackout to restore power is under 90 seconds so it' not a UPS and will take 1.5 minutes to bring back power. First world problem but you will need to reset all your oven clocks again etc. This would save $ if I am happy with the Fronius pairing it with BYD HVS battery as that is the only battery it supports right now and we will not need to buy a separate battery inverter however with 6kW being biggest Gen 24 model you can get, it will not support our ducted aircon in an event of black out. I am more inclined towards the 48V battery as they are cheaper and the likes or Victron MultiPlus II 10kVa model are cheap and can be installed only 2nd phase so it will very well cover our power hungry ducted aircon running at its peak of 7kW on second phase and a 5kVa MultiPlus II or Sunny Island 6kVa installed on 1st phase to cover main home load.

The big advantage SMA has over Fronius is that SMA Home Manager 2.0 supports Modbus, SEMP and SG ready protocols. You can buy Edimax radio-controlled sockets from Australia (there are couple of other brands supported too but only available in Europe with EU plugs), plug a socket in front of your dishwasher, washing machine, dryer and if they are recent models where if you start a cycle, power goes off and when power is restored then cycle automatically resumes again without user input then that means Home Manager 2.0 will automagically control and start these machine's when it sees solar production while we are at work or busy at home doing other things. It means, we can load up these appliances at night or whenever and SMA will take care of it from there.

With the SEMP protocol, there is a third-party tool available called SAE (Smart Appliance Enabler) which has blessing from SMA HQ, which will let me use Shelly switches/sockets etc to plug into these appliances if I don't want to go down the route of Edimax gear and even plug our ducted heatpump relay to it to power on/off during solar production only. If you have a Bosch or Siemens appliances with WiFi card which most new models do, then Home Manager 2.0 natively controls these without requiring Edimax or shelly gear. Fronius does not offer any such functionality.

Another plus point but only a minor one for most people at least is with SMA online Sunny Portal, there is no limit for how many days generation data is available to view. You can go back as far as your 1st day of install of Solar PV. With Fronius, only 3 days of data is available unless you pay, I think $50/year for a premium subscription. For those that can setup PVOutput, then the Fronius issue no longer exists anyway but I think even with PVOutput, you are restricted with certain feature set without making yearly donations.

Do whatever you want to do man.

yumcimil

177 posts

Master Geek

#3000039 22-Nov-2022 21:25

Anyone have any recommendations for installers in Wellington? I've been trying to work with Harrisons, but they're *very* slow to respond, and I'm trying to place an order, not looking for service. :(

Stu1

1769 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#3000050 22-Nov-2022 22:06

yumcimil:
Anyone have any recommendations for installers in Wellington? I've been trying to work with Harrisons, but they're *very* slow to respond, and I'm trying to place an order, not looking for service. :(

Tony at Solar man highly recommended

https://solarman.co.nz/

Ge0rge

2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3000060 22-Nov-2022 22:41

Stu1:
yumcimil:
Anyone have any recommendations for installers in Wellington? I've been trying to work with Harrisons, but they're *very* slow to respond, and I'm trying to place an order, not looking for service. :(

Tony at Solar man highly recommended

https://solarman.co.nz/

I second this - Tony was great doing ours, couldn't have asked for better.

yumcimil

177 posts

Master Geek

#3000242 23-Nov-2022 11:50

Thanks heaps everyone!

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3000254 23-Nov-2022 12:10

@yumcimil looking at Solarman NZ's Facebook page, they update it quite regularly with photos of installs they complete, and they look very tidy. The photos will give you a good indication from various installer's social media page if they are keeping it updated, what there installs are like.

Solarman NZ | Facebook

Do whatever you want to do man.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | ... | 98