Solar options for home in 2022.

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1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274650 23-Aug-2024 07:25

And another quote..

20xTrina Vertex S+ NEG9RC.27 Clear Black (8.4KW)

SOLIS 6 kW inverter

Dyness Powerbox Pro 10.24 kWh battery

Their calculations on production/savings/self consumption seem out there..

$23k though

LightbulbNeil

57 posts

Master Geek

#3274656 23-Aug-2024 08:12

That is interesting. Can you please message what the savings might be with that system.
Thanks.
Neil

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274660 23-Aug-2024 08:29

82% annual energy from solar

73% self consumption / 27% export

Lifetime Bill Savings $94,230

9,535kWh per year production

Oh $26,628.60 including GST

LightbulbNeil

57 posts

Master Geek

#3274670 23-Aug-2024 08:59

Thank you very much.

billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3274672 23-Aug-2024 09:11

RobDickinson:

Quote 3 ..

$33,600

21 x Longi 440W Pure Black- 9.24kw

1 x Powerwall 3

Surprised the PW system is coming in so cheap

Are you single phase or 3 phase power at home? Even with the additional gateway price included which is around $2k at most, this looks surprisingly cheap as PW2 was around $18k to $19k incl gateway and install. PW3 is suppose to be $2k more expensive compared to pw2 when you look at pricing in UK and Australia.

As much as I will never support tesla until Elon is around and if you have no issues with who is running the company, the specs on pw3 are actually impressive since it has DC and AC combined. It does up to 5kW of DC charging while 11kW odd of AC output. It only makes sense to go pw3 for a fresh install. AC coupling will not be supported until 2025 firmware update so for existing solar users its uselss unless they gut out there existing solar inverters completely.

Couple of caveats though if they bother you. pw3 only does backup on 1 phase so if you have 3 phase power and using multiple phases, only 1 phase will have backup power. Second is that tesla can and has updated there software by removing features. The most annoying one affected rural installs in Australia. Watch video below. You cannot control what they can and cannot push software update wise to your powerwall to add or remove features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pioQD9fkj3M&t

If you want to expand battery in the future, you will need to purchase another pw3 and its a big cost since it includes both DC and AC inverter. Where as with a modular system like the Sungrow you got quoted earlier, you can buy individual battery pack modules and stack on top.

Do whatever you want to do man.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3274673 23-Aug-2024 09:20

RobDickinson:

82% annual energy from solar

73% self consumption / 27% export

Lifetime Bill Savings $94,230

9,535kWh per year production

Oh $26,628.60 including GST

I'd suggest those figures have been embellished somewhat.

Our 9.5kW of panels feeding into a single phase 8.2kW Fronius inverter generated 11,300Kwh in the last 12 months and we self consumed 62%. Our panels are north facing sloped at 39 degrees by way of being mounted on trusses on a shed roof. Also one bank of those panels are bifacials which gives us some extra gain at days' ends in summer in particular. I micromanage our systems usage as well as a diverter and Evnex EVSE set to solar diverson 95% of the time so doubt any higher self consumption would be possible without batteries.

Solar Analytics is telling me that we have 'earned' just under $3,200 over the past 12 months in export and self consumption using our Octopus plan's supply and FIT rates, so ~9 year payback at current supply rates.

Where are they deriving their "lifetime Savings" dollar value as this can vary significantly between the different retail supply plans?

That being said our system cost a few thousand more than your quote partly due to connection peculiarities but if your proposed system includes a battery it does seem like a reasonable deal overall.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274674 23-Aug-2024 09:20

Eh not keen on Elon any more but the pw3 looks a great option.

Only single phase here.

I've owned a tesla car for 5 years no features removed as yet ;)

"If you want to expand battery in the future, you will need to purchase another pw3 and its a big cost since it includes both DC and AC inverter."

No they are going to be doing a battery only box /DC expansion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSzRDa8zW80&t=709s

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274677 23-Aug-2024 09:27

HarmLessSolutions:

I'd suggest those figures have been embellished somewhat.

That being said our system cost a few thousand more than your quote partly due to connection peculiarities but if your proposed system includes a battery it does seem like a reasonable deal overall.

I agree.. seems overly optimistic. Not sure the battery/inverter solution would solve our 'needs' anyhow. Does seem decent value for the price.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3274679 23-Aug-2024 09:36

RobDickinson:

HarmLessSolutions:

I'd suggest those figures have been embellished somewhat.

That being said our system cost a few thousand more than your quote partly due to connection peculiarities but if your proposed system includes a battery it does seem like a reasonable deal overall.

I agree.. seems overly optimistic. Not sure the battery/inverter solution would solve our 'needs' anyhow. Does seem decent value for the price.

Also worth checking how the PW/EV charging interfaces. It makes little sense if the PW is being drawn down to charge an EV as this results in doubling the 'processing' losses and increases PW battery degradation rate. Worth too considering that exporting ex-PW may be restricted by the phase export cap depending on how the system is configured.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274681 23-Aug-2024 09:43

I imagine I will be charging the ev only on solar direct ( but assume thats DC solar -> PW/Gateway -> ac -> car)

I'll prob setup a schedule on the car, I dont have a wallbox for charging at the moment and dont use the car all that much right now

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3274696 23-Aug-2024 10:48

RobDickinson:

I imagine I will be charging the ev only on solar direct ( but assume thats DC solar -> PW/Gateway -> ac -> car)

I'll prob setup a schedule on the car, I dont have a wallbox for charging at the moment and dont use the car all that much right now

My immediate thought is that the PW's inclusion of an inverter function does reduce the capex but an 'all in one package' of this type also restricts the overall functionality of the setup insofar as adding components. For example Tesla is recognised as being resistant to V2G and the PW would seem to prevent the addition of a bidirectional EVSE. Even adding an EVSE with solar diversion raises the question as to whether the path through the PW impacts on the battery SoC.

I'm old school in how I prefer things to work such as still owning an integrated component home sound system. Any of the components can be changed out with replacements introduced by simply unplugging and reconnecting the new bit. I see the PW as akin to a 3 in 1 home stereo where if for example the CD player fails the entire system is munted. YMMV

I've found this guy's presentations contain reliable easily understood info. This one on batteries may be of interest.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274699 23-Aug-2024 11:01

I guess thats the risk in all in one solutions but it is separate parts in one box, the inverter can be repaired/replaced without touching the battery part so not sure how different that is to a separate inverter breaking etc.

I still dont see any real world V2G systems for CCS enabled cars coming, is there any info on that? Yes I know we have quite a few V2L enabled vehicles now but.. (and I also dont see me changing cars soon)

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3274704 23-Aug-2024 11:19

RobDickinson:

I guess thats the risk in all in one solutions but it is separate parts in one box, the inverter can be repaired/replaced without touching the battery part so not sure how different that is to a separate inverter breaking etc.

I still dont see any real world V2G systems for CCS enabled cars coming, is there any info on that? Yes I know we have quite a few V2L enabled vehicles now but.. (and I also dont see me changing cars soon)

Wallbox has the Quasar and Enphase bidi charger is still to be released. Evnex say they are working on the technology. The increasing number of EVs with V2G functionality (Kia, VW, Polestar3 & 4, Leaf) will help drive the introduction of this tech in home installations but for now the price of compatible EVSEs and inertia from the lines companies seem to be the biggest barriers.

The pros and cons of V2G can be argued but for me the price per kWh of a static home battery seems over the top in comparison to those in an EV that can be utilised for the same purpose by way of V2G, particularly so for those in a work from home situation as I am.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3274709 23-Aug-2024 11:27

Sure, home batteries are more expensive than cars but your car wont always be there so they server some what different purpose.

Leafs/Outlanders other Chademo cars have always been able to do this as V2G was baked in from the start, it was though hideously expensive to get the kit installed to allow it, more than a home battery.

I hope a CCS2 system comes out one day thats actually practical and affordable

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3274711 23-Aug-2024 11:35

RobDickinson:

Sure, home batteries are more expensive than cars but your car wont always be there so they server some what different purpose.

Leafs/Outlanders other Chademo cars have always been able to do this as V2G was baked in from the start, it was though hideously expensive to get the kit installed to allow it, more than a home battery.

I hope a CCS2 system comes out one day thats actually practical and affordable

Leaf/Outlander V2G is due to Japanese government mandating this function post-Fukushima for grid resilience purposes. We updated our Leaf to a 2016 model last year for this reason but the EVSEs and lines company regulatory platform are the barriers for now. Interesting info on Chademo and V2G in this video. V2G making an EV into a money earning asset is appealing.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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