HRV... is it worth it?

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#1368617 18-Aug-2015 14:00

People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

richms

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#1368625 18-Aug-2015 14:20

mattwnz: People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

Thats great if you are at home in the room during the day. For people that work, opening windows during the day is not an option. If I am out in the garage doing stuff I am not leaving house windows open for anyone to jump the fence and help themselves.

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Jase2985

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#1368629 18-Aug-2015 14:25

mattwnz: People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

as above, great for those who work from home, or are stay at home parents but not ideal if you work 8-5 or what ever

mattwnz

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#1368699 18-Aug-2015 15:28

Jase2985:
mattwnz: People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

as above, great for those who work from home, or are stay at home parents but not ideal if you work 8-5 or what ever

You can install security stays to allow windows to open only a small amount. I have them installed myself, along with an alarm, so will know if someone does break it.Certainly a lot cheaper than the install and running cost of a ducted fan. I have a friend who has some rentals, and one of the problems was that tenants never opened their windows, so casued problems. He required tthem to, so that the house would 'air' and installed stays to allow it. But still people wouldn't leave their windows open. So this trapped damp air air stays locked in the house, unless there is some form of mechanical ventilation. We perhaps need to move to how they do eco houses in Europe, which are toally air sealled, but have a heat recovery system to rotate the air. The air quality in most houses I go into in NZ is terrible, you can just smell the dampness and stale air in the house.

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#1368707 18-Aug-2015 15:42

mattwnz:
Jase2985:
mattwnz: People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

as above, great for those who work from home, or are stay at home parents but not ideal if you work 8-5 or what ever

You can install security stays to allow windows to open only a small amount. I have them installed myself, along with an alarm, so will know if someone does break it.Certainly a lot cheaper than the install and running cost of a ducted fan. I have a friend who has some rentals, and one of the problems was that tenants never opened their windows, so casued problems. He required tthem to, so that the house would 'air' and installed stays to allow it. But still people wouldn't leave their windows open. So this trapped damp air air stays locked in the house, unless there is some form of mechanical ventilation. We perhaps need to move to how they do eco houses in Europe, which are toally air sealled, but have a heat recovery system to rotate the air. The air quality in most houses I go into in NZ is terrible, you can just smell the dampness and stale air in the house.

Not hugely practical on some wood framed windows, a sharp pull on them and you have broken the frame.

Im also not comfortable leaving the house with windows on stays, nor sure how an insurance company would react if your windows were left open and the house was broken in.

As for having an alarm, thats all well and good, but by the time the monitoring company or the police turns up the theifs are gone.

Make your house the lesser target, than your neighbors, keep the windows closed.

each to their own but im not leaving my windows open or on stays while im not at home

richms

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#1368709 18-Aug-2015 15:53

Most stays are quite clear that they are for use when occuplied for stopping kids falling out of the window etc.

There are some I have seen that claimed to be security stays, but basically one twist with a flat screwdriver and they would pop off the other half and the window would open fully. In general older NZ houses have crap wooden joinery that barely seals so I would expect that would provide some ventelation.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

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#1368711 18-Aug-2015 15:58

Jase2985:
mattwnz:
Jase2985:
mattwnz: People could just open their windows to ventilate their homes, which is what Ecca recommend. Part of the problem in NZ is that people keep their windows closed throughout the day, and wonder why at night they get condensation when the temperature outside drops.

as above, great for those who work from home, or are stay at home parents but not ideal if you work 8-5 or what ever

You can install security stays to allow windows to open only a small amount. I have them installed myself, along with an alarm, so will know if someone does break it.Certainly a lot cheaper than the install and running cost of a ducted fan. I have a friend who has some rentals, and one of the problems was that tenants never opened their windows, so casued problems. He required tthem to, so that the house would 'air' and installed stays to allow it. But still people wouldn't leave their windows open. So this trapped damp air air stays locked in the house, unless there is some form of mechanical ventilation. We perhaps need to move to how they do eco houses in Europe, which are toally air sealled, but have a heat recovery system to rotate the air. The air quality in most houses I go into in NZ is terrible, you can just smell the dampness and stale air in the house.

Not hugely practical on some wood framed windows, a sharp pull on them and you have broken the frame.

Im also not comfortable leaving the house with windows on stays, nor sure how an insurance company would react if your windows were left open and the house was broken in.

As for having an alarm, thats all well and good, but by the time the monitoring company or the police turns up the theifs are gone.

Make your house the lesser target, than your neighbors, keep the windows closed.

each to their own but im not leaving my windows open or on stays while im not at home

Thieves can jimmy open timber windows very easily as they are, even when closed, as timber windows aren't very strong.. It isn't that difficult to cut or break glass either. Many of the older windows just have friction stays on them anyway, which you just pull hard enough to open. Prior to putting on security stays, I could easily force my windows open, get my arm in to unlatch a larger window when I had forgotten my keys. The best security is an alarm and insurance companies do note that on policies. In home cameras etc, may help too. Really they are a deterent, so signage can be enough to deter people. But also depends if you live in a good area. If the stays are proper security ones and professionally installed, they do a good job, I am not talking about the cheap ones you can get from big box hardware stores.. But still, when you are home, opening the windows should help a lot an reduce the need for mechanical ventilation. If you are still getting condensation after leaving winodws open for several hours, it could be the sign of dampness coming from the foundations, which can be fixed another way.

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scuwp

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#1368716 18-Aug-2015 16:13

Sure. I will keep my windows open all night at sub zero temperatures. NOT. I love having doors and windows open when I can and when weather permits. But that doesn't help me stop condensation overnight. Nor does it help distribute some warm air into the house from the roof assisting heating in winter. The security stay issue has already been canvases.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

bfginger

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#1368725 18-Aug-2015 16:45

Winter total humidity levels are much lower in the UK than here. And they have central heating so their houses are warmer.

Double glazing can reduce relative humidity by making the house warmer but although condensation may not appear on the glass that doesn't always mean the humidity has been reduced to a healthy level. Double glazing can hide high humidity. Single glazed aluminium windows will have little condensation if the relative humidity is at the levels it should be.

Opening a window to ventilate doesn't work very well in New Zealand. In the colder parts of the country you're losing huge amounts of heat. In the warmer parts like Auckland it can be so damp the relative humidity level will still be too high inside most of the time. Opening windows in many northern houses just lets mould smells out in winter.

Jase2985

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#1368730 18-Aug-2015 16:50

mattwnz:
Thieves can jimmy open timber windows very easily as they are, even when closed, as timber windows aren't very strong.. It isn't that difficult to cut or break glass either. Many of the older windows just have friction stays on them anyway, which you just pull hard enough to open. Prior to putting on security stays, I could easily force my windows open, get my arm in to unlatch a larger window when I had forgotten my keys. The best security is an alarm and insurance companies do note that on policies. In home cameras etc, may help too. Really they are a deterent, so signage can be enough to deter people. But also depends if you live in a good area. If the stays are proper security ones and professionally installed, they do a good job, I am not talking about the cheap ones you can get from big box hardware stores.. But still, when you are home, opening the windows should help a lot an reduce the need for mechanical ventilation. If you are still getting condensation after leaving winodws open for several hours, it could be the sign of dampness coming from the foundations, which can be fixed another way.

and a closed window is more of a deterrent than an open one.

some may like to do it the way you suggested, but i think you will find they are in the minority

richms

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#1368733 18-Aug-2015 16:57

In winter I cant find any downsides to running a dehumidifier to deal with the humidity other than lazy flatmates not emptying it. Get the heat from it and the place gets dryer.

Richard rich.ms

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#1368763 18-Aug-2015 18:13

I was quoted $3200 for a DVS system with one fan unit, 1x heated vent, 4x standard vents.

Was quoted $3400 for the same sort of unit from Smartvent.

HRV I never got a quote from as their sales strategy was so poor.

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mattwnz

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#1368765 18-Aug-2015 18:19

richms: In winter I cant find any downsides to running a dehumidifier to deal with the humidity other than lazy flatmates not emptying it. Get the heat from it and the place gets dryer.

Except they are expensive to run, and they don't have a long life. I have two, mitsubishi, and both no longer work as the refrigerant has failed. I had one fixed, and it worked for a few months, but then stopped working again. But I would agree that when they work, they do work well, and preferable to a ducted positive pressure ventillation system, which was already installed in my house. All that seems to do is pump cold air into the rooms from the roofspace, and the dehumidifier still draws a lot of moisture out of the air.

mattwnz

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#1368766 18-Aug-2015 18:21

Jase2985:

and a closed window is more of a deterrent than an open one.

some may like to do it the way you suggested, but i think you will find they are in the minority

True. Although if someone wants to break in, they will find a way, and even if there is a windows slightly a jar, with security stays, they aren't necessarily going to use that as their access method. I would think it would be far easier to force a door or break a window.

scuwp

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#1368767 18-Aug-2015 18:22

michaelmurfy: I was quoted $3200 for a DVS system with one fan unit, 1x heated vent, 4x standard vents.

Was quoted $3400 for the same sort of unit from Smartvent.

HRV I never got a quote from as their sales strategy was so poor.

Just make sure you are comparing apples with apples. The DVS system we looked at they didn't use acoustic ducting (which is more expensive). We got the SV04 with 2 extra outlets and extra ducting to reach the larger areas. $3,800 installed. HRV insisted we needed 2 motors and wanted just on $6,000.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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