Ducted heatpump advice sought

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gedc

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#1748129 26-Mar-2017 15:54

Just be aware re zoning that if you balance the system for the whole home and get it working well...THEN...insert manifolds etc to slow / block airflow then you may get some issues with over / under airflows in the rooms you utilise.

The only advice I can offer having spent 10 months of hell working with a well known firm who were Fujitsu trained is make sure they have installed and worked on many many many ducted systems as they are an artform and law unto themselves :) It's a fair bit more complex than running copper pipes and filling with refrigerant as both I and my installers eventually figured out.

I would also consider installing the vents ( they fixed 70% of our issues ) where there is an internal metal coil that opens or closes the vents based on cold or hot air flowing through them. So hot air is fired downwards to the floor then rises up to warm the room and cold air is fired out at ceiling level and drops down to cool the room. Without them we found we had a very very hot roof and hot heads and freezing feet and bodies. I remember the $40 day of electricity we used as the outdoor unit sounded like it was trying to take off with the temp at the controller registering about 13/14 c.

If you are in CChurch then I can give you a contact at Gavin Lowe ( they weren't the company who installed the system but I wish they were ) who eventually came out and sorted the install issues as well as balanced and brought the system upto useable and enjoyable. English lad, about 20+ years of experience and knew these things inside out and back to front.

Best of luck and post back as to how you go

Ged

RickW

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#1748229 26-Mar-2017 18:32

gedc:
Just be aware re zoning that if you balance the system for the whole home and get it working well...THEN...insert manifolds etc to slow / block airflow then you may get some issues with over / under airflows in the rooms you utilise.

The only advice I can offer having spent 10 months of hell working with a well known firm who were Fujitsu trained is make sure they have installed and worked on many many many ducted systems as they are an artform and law unto themselves :) It's a fair bit more complex than running copper pipes and filling with refrigerant as both I and my installers eventually figured out.

I would also consider installing the vents ( they fixed 70% of our issues ) where there is an internal metal coil that opens or closes the vents based on cold or hot air flowing through them. So hot air is fired downwards to the floor then rises up to warm the room and cold air is fired out at ceiling level and drops down to cool the room. Without them we found we had a very very hot roof and hot heads and freezing feet and bodies. I remember the $40 day of electricity we used as the outdoor unit sounded like it was trying to take off with the temp at the controller registering about 13/14 c.

If you are in CChurch then I can give you a contact at Gavin Lowe ( they weren't the company who installed the system but I wish they were ) who eventually came out and sorted the install issues as well as balanced and brought the system upto useable and enjoyable. English lad, about 20+ years of experience and knew these things inside out and back to front.

Best of luck and post back as to how you go

Ged

Hey mate we're in the process of sorting out a heatpump system for a new build, so you can recommend gavin lowe? Who was your original install company?

Dingbatt

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#1748476 27-Mar-2017 08:22

@gedc
Thanks for the warning, particularly about retrofitting zoning. If the system is working effectively then we wouldn't bother with zoning, but I recognise that the system would need to be re-tuned as if it was a new install if we try to zone out later. Our house isn't huge (living areas approx 280m3) so will probably be just one zone.
Interested in the diffusers you used. Did you source and install them yourself?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

timmmay

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#2636753 17-Jan-2021 09:40

Old thread, but i've got some questions on diffusers...

I'm getting an HRV ducted heating / cooling system. They use the standard round diffusers which many have said are ineffective. I've convinced them to use Holyoake diffusers that I supply, so that would be an improvement.

HRV have said they will put the diffusers in the corners of the rooms. I guess that would mean about half the air goes straight into the walls rather than being distributed around the room, though it would probably move about somewhat. It would also do things like heat up the exterior walls wasting some of the heat, and putting hot air past the walls might eventually affect paint, wardrobes, etc.

Question 1: Are the Holyoake diffusers effective for corner use?

Question 2: is there a better diffuser for corner use, available in NZ? Perhaps something directional like I found on Amazon? This doesn't send any air straight down though, just sideways. Maybe the best option would be Holyoake with duct tape around half of it, but that would be ugly and my wife wouldn't go for it.

Question 3: I wonder if there's a better position for the ceiling diffusers? In the bedrooms the middle of the ceiling has a light fitting, but other rooms are clear, and half way between the ceiling center and the window might work so long as it doesn't create a strong breeze where we sleep / sit. I understand that with ducted systems air is drawn from the ducts to the return grill, so for heating the whole room it's better to have the duct closer to the outer wall.

Question 4: Am I just overthinking this?

gedc

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#2636755 17-Jan-2021 09:49

The return creates a large suction - you aren't really aware of it until you put your hand under a door and feel a draught so it's moving a fair old volume of air. The idea of putting the vents in the corner is to then have the warm air dragged across the whole room - warming as it heads back to the return. It doesn't really hang about much due to the return pump pulling it hard.

If you have vents closer to the door as an example then the warm air will come out then immediately will want to head to the return grille - which means cold corners in the room etc. So I would suggest you want the vents to be more towards the corners - furthest from the return air pathway.

Jase2985

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#2636757 17-Jan-2021 09:54

timmmay:

Question 4: Am I just overthinking this?

yes

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D1023319

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#2636764 17-Jan-2021 10:27

I just had a Daikin underfloor system installed with 5 zones by Temperature Solutions in Wellington.
They provided excellent advice and a quality installation.

I went underfloor as we have a bungalow with Carrara plaster ceilings and I didn't want to cut holes in them plus lots of rooms rather than open plan.

The android zone control is very intuitive.
They also explained how in our bungalow - the inlets are in middle of house and outlets are in outer edges of rooms to create a circular air flow.
They also said it had to be sufficient size because if your pipes/inlet are too small - it will be noisy when sucking air.

timmmay

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#2636900 17-Jan-2021 14:18

gedc:

The return creates a large suction - you aren't really aware of it until you put your hand under a door and feel a draught so it's moving a fair old volume of air. The idea of putting the vents in the corner is to then have the warm air dragged across the whole room - warming as it heads back to the return. It doesn't really hang about much due to the return pump pulling it hard.

If you have vents closer to the door as an example then the warm air will come out then immediately will want to head to the return grille - which means cold corners in the room etc. So I would suggest you want the vents to be more towards the corners - furthest from the return air pathway.

Yeah that was my understanding. I just wondered if unidirectional diffusers would be more efficient, but the suction probably means the air is more directly outwards anyway.

D1023319:

I just had a Daikin underfloor system installed with 5 zones by Temperature Solutions in Wellington.
They provided excellent advice and a quality installation.

I went underfloor as we have a bungalow with Carrara plaster ceilings and I didn't want to cut holes in them plus lots of rooms rather than open plan.

The android zone control is very intuitive.
They also explained how in our bungalow - the inlets are in middle of house and outlets are in outer edges of rooms to create a circular air flow.
They also said it had to be sufficient size because if your pipes/inlet are too small - it will be noisy when sucking air.

Looks good. I considered under-floor but we have a huge ceiling space so went with that.

HRV don't do zoning - I wonder if the Airtouch can be retrofitted to the HRV / Panasonic systems. It has dampers, so I guess so. A quick Google suggested it costs a few grand, at that price it's pretty good, maybe a later retrofit.

jjnz1

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#2636908 17-Jan-2021 15:22

A quick google brings up RRP pricing:

https://smooth-air.co.nz/product/catalog/DuctSplitComponents*Zone%20Controls*

Looks like it will fit Panasonic :)

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