Solar options for home in 2022.

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174 posts

Master Geek

#3315537 3-Dec-2024 16:47

chimera:

export 17c, offpeak 22c (+gst?) 5 cent differential. Is the lifetime cost of the battery close to 5c/kWh ?

The equation isn't really that simple, as sun is out during peak usage too. Plus the battery also supplements the difference during daytime offpeak / peak times when load exceeds pv alone. In other words, sun (aka energy) isn't consistent. But having battery does flatten out those cloudy periods

It's a difficult thing to assess, probably need a years worth of data to average it out and work on specific figures.

At a high level, the numbers worked for me at the price I bought batteries for.

Yes that was sort a worse case scenario. If you are substituting for peak import when load > generation then it's better off (29-17=12), and likewise when you have charged on overnight at 14c rather than the forgone 17c export you are better off (29-14=15 for peak or 22-14=8 for offpeak). And anyway, at a lifetime cost of 3.8cents/ kWh you should be doing well enough to offset anything i left out like sparky install and material fees and the charge/discharge losses.

timbosan

2159 posts

Uber Geek

#3315546 3-Dec-2024 17:07

dantheperson:

chimera:

The equation isn't really that simple, as sun is out during peak usage too. Plus the battery also supplements the difference during daytime offpeak / peak times when load exceeds pv alone. In other words, sun (aka energy) isn't consistent. But having battery does flatten out those cloudy periods

It's a difficult thing to assess, probably need a years worth of data to average it out and work on specific figures.

At a high level, the numbers worked for me at the price I bought batteries for.

Yes that was sort a worse case scenario. If you are substituting for peak import when load > generation then it's better off (29-17=12), and likewise when you have charged on overnight at 14c rather than the forgone 17c export you are better off (29-14=15 for peak or 22-14=8 for offpeak). And anyway, at a lifetime cost of 3.8cents/ kWh you should be doing well enough to offset anything i left out like sparky install and material fees and the charge/discharge losses.

On the battery topic, I have been weighing up going with a hybrid inverter even without a battery to start with, as I foresee that eventually power prices from the grid (or even just the daily charges) will outprice buying batteries.

I WFH, have a hot water cylinder with a time, an EV, so can a lot of solar into local 'storage' but I think a battery is important in the future (like you say, after a year of usage stats).

Question is, is it worth the extra money up front? The hybrid inverters are quite a lot more.

mentalinc

3226 posts

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#3315550 3-Dec-2024 17:13

How have you got the pump/timer setup to be controlled with smarts?

My concern is having chlorinator running, and pump off which leads to an explosion.

I have Chlorinator on lowest setting and chlorine can still creep up.

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Jase2985

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#3315556 3-Dec-2024 17:27

dukezoid: Recommendations for best solar retailer servicing Auckland / Vector?

Octopus looks up there.

Been with Powershop for yonks but buyback is just 13c and they’ll ping me $150 to activate export even if no metering tech visit / hardware change required. Electrician says current smart meter is good to go.

Ta

you really need to look into that yourself, there are lots of retailers with lots of deals what vary by area/suburb so while i can say what i worked out to be the best for me, it might not work out the best for you.

Honestly take the time sit down for a few hours and compile a spreadsheet and compare your actual usage with your current provider vs those companies you think have the best deals. you might be suprised.

Jase2985

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#3315560 3-Dec-2024 17:32

chimera:

Those posting solar usage graphs for November with large PV systems, I'd be curious to know how often your PV generation exceeded your load + your export to grid (I'm assuming) capped at 5kw. Eg: solar 9KWh, load 1kW, export 5kW. 3kW wasted at those points in time.

10kW panels on a 8.2kW inverter

i would say ive hit the export cap about .01% of the time, and it was only when i was testing what happened. my base load and the pool pump during the day covers most of the difference.

rbensonx

29 posts

Geek

Subscriber

#3315562 3-Dec-2024 17:34

Smart plug on the control unit (powers the chlorinator and pump), ecowitt temp monitor. Home assistant automation looks for temp below minimum and above max. Controls the pump on and off, flow valve in the heat pump means its only running when the pump is on. IF the pump hasn't run all day run it for an hour at least regardless.

As we wind into summer I set the temp range down. 30c might be nice in October but by December 28 is the target and in January 27 etc.

Check the chlorine level every few days. Next step will be some sort of sensor that keeps tabs on chlorine levels

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3315566 3-Dec-2024 17:47

Jase2985:

chimera:

Those posting solar usage graphs for November with large PV systems, I'd be curious to know how often your PV generation exceeded your load + your export to grid (I'm assuming) capped at 5kw. Eg: solar 9KWh, load 1kW, export 5kW. 3kW wasted at those points in time.

10kW panels on a 8.2kW inverter

i would say ive hit the export cap about .01% of the time, and it was only when i was testing what happened. my base load and the pool pump during the day covers most of the difference.

The key to that would be the background consumption of pool pump plus other household items providing a constant base load of ~3kW minimum, so enough to limit generation minus consumption to <5kW. Our base load is typically 0.5kW so other consumption needs to be introduced to prevent inverter throttling, and there's only so many places that we can 'stash away' excess electrons from an 8.2kW capable system.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

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#3315628 3-Dec-2024 19:06

HarmLessSolutions:

Jase2985:

chimera:

Those posting solar usage graphs for November with large PV systems, I'd be curious to know how often your PV generation exceeded your load + your export to grid (I'm assuming) capped at 5kw. Eg: solar 9KWh, load 1kW, export 5kW. 3kW wasted at those points in time.

10kW panels on a 8.2kW inverter

i would say ive hit the export cap about .01% of the time, and it was only when i was testing what happened. my base load and the pool pump during the day covers most of the difference.

The key to that would be the background consumption of pool pump plus other household items providing a constant base load of ~3kW minimum, so enough to limit generation minus consumption to <5kW. Our base load is typically 0.5kW so other consumption needs to be introduced to prevent inverter throttling, and there's only so many places that we can 'stash away' excess electrons from an 8.2kW capable system.

yea, im going to have to play around with energy usage to avoid the 5kW limit over peak summer.

have you considered moving the start time for you solar diverter later in the day to when you are more likely to be close to the 5kW export cap? as opposed to having it run first thing when there is not as much sun?

Jase2985

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#3315630 3-Dec-2024 19:12

rbensonx:

Smart plug on the control unit (powers the chlorinator and pump), ecowitt temp monitor. Home assistant automation looks for temp below minimum and above max. Controls the pump on and off, flow valve in the heat pump means its only running when the pump is on. IF the pump hasn't run all day run it for an hour at least regardless.

As we wind into summer I set the temp range down. 30c might be nice in October but by December 28 is the target and in January 27 etc.

Check the chlorine level every few days. Next step will be some sort of sensor that keeps tabs on chlorine levels

What model did you get? Where do you have the temp sensor placed to read the temp? And what protocol is it?

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3315634 3-Dec-2024 19:58

Jase2985:

have you considered moving the start time for you solar diverter later in the day to when you are more likely to be close to the 5kW export cap? as opposed to having it run first thing when there is not as much sun?

The thought had crossed my mind. No timing facility on the Paladin though so the only way to delay it kicking in would be to turn it/the HWC off until mid morning. The HWC does hold about 2 days use so not the end of the world if I forget to switch it on again.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

rbensonx

29 posts

Geek

Subscriber

#3315638 3-Dec-2024 20:05

Its a Ecowitt WN36. I think they use LoRa but my weather station console is Ecowitt based so I can access it via that. WS2980C

I simply powered it up and it appears as a new sensor on the Ecowitt app and is available to Home Assistant

rbensonx

29 posts

Geek

Subscriber

#3315656 3-Dec-2024 21:21

Jase2985:

What model did you get? Where do you have the temp sensor placed to read the temp? And what protocol is it?

The temp sensor is in the skimmer box. Actually the colder end of the pool

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3315664 3-Dec-2024 22:16

If you do home automation, I bought a PVC T and glued in a female thread piece and plumbed it into the return line, then bought a temp probe like this and screwed into the threaded socket.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOZ2b8b

Connected to a Wemos D1 mini then used esphome to send temperature info to home assistant via mqtt.

https://esphome.io/components/sensor/dallas_temp.html

Easy as

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3315798 4-Dec-2024 08:53

Cost me about $29k for 8.5KW bifacial PV, an 8KW Hybrid Inverter, 30KwH batteries, plus installation.

Oh and the stupid $199 fee to get an import / export meter installed

I didn't need a loan to buy, so no interest costs to factor in so don't know how much that factors into the equation

Everything is pretty much managed by Home Assistant to optimise usage. That has made a decent difference to my usage as my hot water cylinder (HWC) sucks 3500W's and Spa pool 2500W's when on and heating. The timing of heating was never managed prior so it could have heated at any time of the day, peak, offpeak or night.

If I started this process again and was wanting to start on long-term lower cost power usage, I'd probably start with looking at a heat pump water heater (HPWH) ...and if I was building a new house, this would be at the top of my priority list. If your HWC happens to crap out then spend a bit more and replace it with the HPWH equivalent. I believe heat pump equivalents use around 600W or even less so about 1/6th the cost and they tend to be the largest consumer of power. They cost $4k-$6k installed I believe, but for the amount of hot water most houses generate in their lifetime thats a really good starting point. I'd has a guess a normal HWC is gonna be at least $2k (?) installed anyways.

WolfmanNZ

139 posts

Master Geek

#3315864 4-Dec-2024 13:31

mentalinc:

I have Chlorinator on lowest setting and chlorine can still creep up.

You do, like, _swim_ in the pool right? 😁

mentalinc:

My concern is having chlorinator running, and pump off which leads to an explosion.

I

In my setup the pump runs off the power out on the Salt Cells power box - if the Salt Cell is on the pump is on (You can actually disable the salt cell from running with a separate switch and still have the pump running off the timer)

@rebensonx do you have a cover on the pool when not using, or at night at least? In my scenario our family doesnt tend to swim before midday (usually mid-late afternoon in fact) so any overnight loss on the (covered) pool gets restored well before then. When we first bought the house the outgoing owner told us we 'must' only run the heat pump/pool pump at night as it was way too expensive to run during the day, and as not having had experience with these things we took him at his work till we finally made contact with our local pool place and the guys there advised much better to run during the day as better performance for heat pump when warmer etc. Was a massive relief as the pump would wake us up every night (the pool is right next to the house and the pump etc only a few meters from the bedrooms).

Even today in Palmy its overcast and windy (tho not too cold) I can see the heat pump only ran between 10am-12pm and has now switched off (can tell via our Enphase monitor app) our temp is set to 27.

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