Solar options for home in 2022.

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969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3317321 5-Dec-2024 18:57

RobDickinson:

9.25kw, inc pw3

I have a -$41 balance for the month, thats after covering all the daily charges etc.

PW was run in cover my use mode not make me money mode, I've changed that for December.

I'm a little baffled about any 'mode' offering better returns that "covering your use" which would already be optimising your self consumption I would have assumed, which is already the best value to be gained from your generation except perhaps scheduled export at peak demand which companies such as Octopus offer.

It seems that timed export isn't offered by the Powerwall's functionality though.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3317333 5-Dec-2024 20:05

looks like maximising self consumption will use your battery to run the house overnight, whereas cost saving would run the house from the grid, reserving the battery power for daytime use when load > solar. With night rate and export rate being similar on a lot of taffis here, it doesn't make much sense to run your house from the battery overnight.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#3317337 5-Dec-2024 20:32

HarmLessSolutions:
RobDickinson:

9.25kw, inc pw3

I have a -$41 balance for the month, thats after covering all the daily charges etc.

PW was run in cover my use mode not make me money mode, I've changed that for December.

I'm a little baffled about any 'mode' offering better returns that "covering your use" which would already be optimising your self consumption I would have assumed, which is already the best value to be gained from your generation except perhaps scheduled export at peak demand which companies such as Octopus offer.

It seems that timed export isn't offered by the Powerwall's functionality though.

I'm on a variable pricing scheme, the pw knows that and takes advantage of it.

It'll charge up early from the grid and sell at peak, it'll also do things like sell in the morning at peak rather than charge itself which it does later in the day etc.

Idk fully how it works I don't care, yes I'm importing some electricity but I'm also selling more and more at peak times.

It's an experiment and so far it seems to be going OK

Edit you literally linked to a page saying how it does advanced time based export?

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3317345 5-Dec-2024 21:05

@HarmLessSolutions i believe this is what we are looking at, it seems to derate a 7.272% per volt over 242V in my case based on my settings which would indicate its +/- 5% of 230V. it seems that Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 says that our voltage range is 230 V ± 6%, but vector says 7%? so in theory 243.8V is the upper limit before derating, which looking at things i few and far between on my connection, amazing what 2 volts can do.

Looking at my voltage history the vast majority of daytime voltage has been above 235V so it seems we would be better suited to have the inverters set to 240V nominal as opposed to 230V nominal.

i think i saw looking at the last months data and also from every low generation day since I got the system there were only a dozen or so times it would have dropped below the -5% on a 240V nominal system where it would have started derating, and in those instances it would have been a big deal as it was already producing minimal energy. My grid voltage when generating is always closer to 240V than 230V.

i also believe this is relevant
https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/29625-discussion-document-amendments-to-the-electricity-safety-regulations-to-expand-the-permitted-voltage-range-for-electricity-supply-pdf

except Submissions closed: 29 November 2024, 5pm

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3317347 5-Dec-2024 21:10

RobDickinson: ....

Edit you literally linked to a page saying how it does advanced time based export?

So far as what I'm seeing that page seems to only refer to usage but no mention of export, which is why I was struggling to see the logic in moving away from self consumption.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3317348 5-Dec-2024 21:14

HarmLessSolutions:

RobDickinson: ....

Edit you literally linked to a page saying how it does advanced time based export?

So far as what I'm seeing that page seems to only refer to usage but no mention of export, which is why I was struggling to see the logic in moving away from self consumption.

i would assume the system is smart enough to self consume first then sell the maximum to the gird, ie its generating 3kWh of energy, you are using 1kWh of energy, so it will export 2kW of the self generation and also 3kWh from the battery to max out the feed in limit to make the most of the high feed in rate. When the feed in rate drops, it will start to charge the battery for the next time it happens. If your night rate is lower than your export rate, then charging the battery at night and selling the energy back during the day maximizes return from the system.

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3317397 5-Dec-2024 21:27

Jase2985:

@HarmLessSolutions i believe this is what we are looking at, it seems to derate a 7.272% per volt over 242V in my case based on my settings which would indicate its +/- 5% of 230V. it seems that Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 says that our voltage range is 230 V ± 6%, but vector says 7%? so in theory 243.8V is the upper limit before derating, which looking at things i few and far between on my connection, amazing what 2 volts can do.

I took a few more readings today in the midday when there appeared to be minimal cloud haze, and indeed 243.8 appears to be where the inverter starts cutting back

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3317400 5-Dec-2024 21:29

@jase2895 Our grid voltage range is between 234V and 246V so seems more like a 240V nominal than 230V. If Powerco ever get around to replying to my calls and emails this will be the first question I put to them.

In chatting with a mate down the road from us who also has solar, and is an ex-Powerco IT guy, he mentioned that the new transformer that Powerco recently installed is "a 11kv take off to a more complex transformer setup" and also that it was probably installed to supply a large piggery near him. I know from my sparky that the piggery has a biogas cogeneration set-up so perhaps any export by them is contributing to voltage issues in the area. I plan to give my sparky a call tomorrow to see if that theory pans out.

Our solar installer told me a few months back that the changes to ANZ standard 4777 will allow us to widen the voltage parameters on the Fronius to +/-10% but not until the new standard comes into force in a few months. Until then we're stuck with 230V+/- 5%.

Interesting data there. It looks like derating starts at 242V with a full shut down at 250V if I'm interpreting it right. A couple of weeks after our installation we were having shutdowns and our installer came back and widened the parameters which solved the problem, until the recent transformer upgrade.

ETA Our installer has said a few times that if we were allowed to set up compliant to the 2015 regulations there wouldn't be any issue but the 2020 regs tightened up the parameters which means our hands are tied. Just have to wait for the 2024 version to give us wider parameters.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3317401 5-Dec-2024 21:59

dantheperson:

Jase2985:

@HarmLessSolutions i believe this is what we are looking at, it seems to derate a 7.272% per volt over 242V in my case based on my settings which would indicate its +/- 5% of 230V. it seems that Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 says that our voltage range is 230 V ± 6%, but vector says 7%? so in theory 243.8V is the upper limit before derating, which looking at things i few and far between on my connection, amazing what 2 volts can do.

I took a few more readings today in the midday when there appeared to be minimal cloud haze, and indeed 243.8 appears to be where the inverter starts cutting back

Except looks like i've been setup with 244 overvolt vs your at 242, so guess your's would start de-rating a little earlier?

For those with a Fronius you can find this from the inverters web page on your local network, System -> Information -> Grid Support Functions -> Active Power

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3317417 6-Dec-2024 05:06

@dantheperson you appear to have 6% tolerance in line with the ESR, i appear to have 5% in line with AS/NZS4777

EgorNZ

50 posts

Geek

#3317445 6-Dec-2024 08:39

For comparison, here's mine using 242V

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3317629 6-Dec-2024 17:48

tradedepot now selling full solar/inverter/battery kits. e.g. $10K for 5kW solar with 10kWh battery.

PACKAGING INCLUDES:

12x Solar panels - 440W
1x Hybrid inverter
1x Lithium solar battery
1x Mounting bracket with accessories
10x MC4 connectors
100x PV cable

https://tradedepot.co.nz/lighting-electrical-and-plumbing/solar/

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3317631 6-Dec-2024 17:54

Australia now has the first V2G capable EVSE on the market there. "Between $7,000 and$9,000, for the [DC charging] 12 kW and a 25 kW versions". Bring it on!

https://thedriven.io/2024/12/06/first-v2g-chargers-hit-christmas-shelves-but-yet-to-get-final-approval/

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3317633 6-Dec-2024 18:31

HarmLessSolutions:
Australia now has the first V2G capable EVSE on the market there. "Between $7,000 and$9,000, for the [DC charging] 12 kW and a 25 kW versions". Bring it on!

https://thedriven.io/2024/12/06/first-v2g-chargers-hit-christmas-shelves-but-yet-to-get-final-approval/

Au$7k for a bidirectional 12kW ac/dc inverter.... hopefully the prices comes down considering you could get at least 30kWh of stationary lifepo4 battery to plug into an existing solar inverter for that cost.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3317636 6-Dec-2024 19:05

dantheperson:
HarmLessSolutions:

Australia now has the first V2G capable EVSE on the market there. "Between $7,000 and$9,000, for the [DC charging] 12 kW and a 25 kW versions". Bring it on!

https://thedriven.io/2024/12/06/first-v2g-chargers-hit-christmas-shelves-but-yet-to-get-final-approval/

Au$7k for a bidirectional 12kW ac/dc inverter.... hopefully the prices comes down considering you could get at least 30kWh of stationary lifepo4 battery to plug into an existing solar inverter for that cost.

But you can't take the LFP battery down to the dairy, or to the nearest DC charger if you want to take some electricity home to keep the lights on when necessary.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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