New Zealand housing market (particularly Auckland)

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#2082752 2-Sep-2018 13:49

https://www.youthforhumanrights.org/what-are-human-rights/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/introduction.html simple to understand.

I'm out. This is not constructive discussion anymore.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

Wade

2225 posts

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#2082756 2-Sep-2018 14:05

Its seems the Chinese get blamed for inflating many fast rising property markets, Canada, Australia to name a couple, I also understand Shanghai and Beijing amongst other cities are very unaffordable.

Imagine if we the average kiwis were contributing to this phenomena by our reliance on Chinese manufacturing and consumerism which is growing the wealth to a point they cannot buy in their own market and look to migrate to buy affordable housing

#MindBlown :P

tdgeek

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#2082769 2-Sep-2018 14:31

Wade:

Its seems the Chinese get blamed for inflating many fast rising property markets, Canada, Australia to name a couple, I also understand Shanghai and Beijing amongst other cities are very unaffordable.

Imagine if we the average kiwis were contributing to this phenomena by our reliance on Chinese manufacturing and consumerism which is growing the wealth to a point they cannot buy in their own market and look to migrate to buy affordable housing

#MindBlown :P

Blame is not the word I tend to use, its a cause. If NZ was not a VERY low population country, it would be absorbed, along with other on and off variables. But we are VERY VERY small, and easy to drastically alter metrics if large in volume or large in wealth comes here, paying high overseas prices for what were previously low local prices.

It just needed balance, which could be to curb immigration, but a higher population helps NZ. So, the next tact is to make immigrants build only, so they can't artificially overbid everyone and raise prices, they can pay the same as me for a plot of land, and build, and pay the same price as me to build. Housing supply unaffected by immigration, so supply and demand remains what it was.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#2082771 2-Sep-2018 14:40

Wade:

Its seems the Chinese get blamed for inflating many fast rising property markets, Canada, Australia to name a couple, I also understand Shanghai and Beijing amongst other cities are very unaffordable.

Imagine if we the average kiwis were contributing to this phenomena by our reliance on Chinese manufacturing and consumerism which is growing the wealth to a point they cannot buy in their own market and look to migrate to buy affordable housing

#MindBlown :P

It seems to be the media that are doing that. IMO it is all overseas buyers, no mater where they are from. But many other countries don't allow non residents to buy existing homes, including states in Oz. We are now starting to restrict overseas buyers in NZ too, although not sure that now applies to apartments, as there seems to have been a flip flop.

Wade

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#2082772 2-Sep-2018 14:42

I think directing immigrants into new builds is a brilliant idea, lets not curb immigration, there is a sense of irony that many new builds are physically being built by immigrants as we do not have sufficient workforce to keep up with demand. For the building sector, which overall is a huge component of employment in the NZ market, this building growth is critical, if we get nice parks, roads, shopping centres etc along the way then its even better

Batman

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#2082780 2-Sep-2018 15:08

Geektastic:

Batman: One thing that people haven't mentioned, is money laundering.

If you make a lot of money and you don't want to pay tax. What to do? Take it to places like London, Melbourne, Auckland and put it in houses.

Hmm. I am sure the authorities haven't thought of that...

Nope

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-corruption/britain-launches-inquiry-into-money-laundering-with-focus-on-property-idUSKBN1H43FN

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-13/should-australias-anti-money-laundering-laws-be-extended/8703354

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11706741

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11697454

surfisup1000

5288 posts

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#2082789 2-Sep-2018 15:49

Geektastic:

Clearly Kiwis CAN compete, since only 3% of sales were to overseas buyers, that means 97% of sales were to Kiwis.

I know the report you are discussing. It did say 3% of house sales in "New Zealand" went to foreigners.

Here is my argument against your '3%' figure.

It is misleading to aggregate foreign purchasing across the entire New Zealand market when it’s concentrated in Auckland. Unless you’re trying to disguise what’s actually going on in Auckland (and Queenstown).

The same report shows foreign buyer activity being strongest in Auckland and Queenstown. I don't believe it is a coincidence that both Auckland and Queenstown also had the largest price increases.

The report states that 20% of house sales in a central auckland area were to foreigners (that also excludes immigrants with foreign incomes). Effectively, people who have an Auckland income source are competing with people who earn a foreign income or built their wealth in another country. Immigration tends favour more successful and thus wealthier people (our points system), and we know New Zealand is still a fairly low wage economy.

So, we have a significant number of wealthy people immigrating to Auckland and Queenstown , low interest rates are allowing locals to borrow more using the same salary. And Auckland council is not releasing more land for development, so house prices explode.

My theory anyway. I don't blame immigrants though, they are acting rationally to do the best for themselves and their families. I'd be doing exactly the same thing.

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Batman

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#2082853 2-Sep-2018 18:04

Batman:
gzt:
Sam91: I know a university student living in a 5 bedroom Auckland house by himself while he studies. His family also owns a very expensive apartment which is rented and provides him with his income. His parents aren't living in NZ. From my conversations at uni, many international students will be bought a property to live in while they study, so this example is not unique. It's not a problem limited to Chinese students either, I had a classmate from Kuwait living in a property bought by his parents. While they might not be the main driver of house prices, international students must've contributed to the problem in some way.

That ended August 15th I believe:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/106297829/labours-bill-to-curb-foreigners-buying-new-zealand-houses-becomes-law

Purchase of apartments and investment in new construction is allowed. Existing house and land type purchases are no longer an option.

Do you know if it's effective immediately or is there a date that this law starts to apply?

Anyone knows when the law takes effect?

tdgeek

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#2082857 2-Sep-2018 18:26

surfisup1000:

Geektastic:

Clearly Kiwis CAN compete, since only 3% of sales were to overseas buyers, that means 97% of sales were to Kiwis.

I know the report you are discussing. It did say 3% of house sales in "New Zealand" went to foreigners.

Here is my argument against your '3%' figure.

It is misleading to aggregate foreign purchasing across the entire New Zealand market when it’s concentrated in Auckland. Unless you’re trying to disguise what’s actually going on in Auckland (and Queenstown).

The same report shows foreign buyer activity being strongest in Auckland and Queenstown. I don't believe it is a coincidence that both Auckland and Queenstown also had the largest price increases.

The report states that 20% of house sales in a central auckland area were to foreigners (that also excludes immigrants with foreign incomes). Effectively, people who have an Auckland income source are competing with people who earn a foreign income or built their wealth in another country. Immigration tends favour more successful and thus wealthier people (our points system), and we know New Zealand is still a fairly low wage economy.

So, we have a significant number of wealthy people immigrating to Auckland and Queenstown , low interest rates are allowing locals to borrow more using the same salary. And Auckland council is not releasing more land for development, so house prices explode.

My theory anyway. I don't blame immigrants though, they are acting rationally to do the best for themselves and their families. I'd be doing exactly the same thing.

Agree. You can also exclude the many many sales of average and below homes that immigrants are not interested in

Geektastic

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#2082858 2-Sep-2018 18:38

surfisup1000:

Geektastic:

Clearly Kiwis CAN compete, since only 3% of sales were to overseas buyers, that means 97% of sales were to Kiwis.

I know the report you are discussing. It did say 3% of house sales in "New Zealand" went to foreigners.

Here is my argument against your '3%' figure.

It is misleading to aggregate foreign purchasing across the entire New Zealand market when it’s concentrated in Auckland. Unless you’re trying to disguise what’s actually going on in Auckland (and Queenstown).

The same report shows foreign buyer activity being strongest in Auckland and Queenstown. I don't believe it is a coincidence that both Auckland and Queenstown also had the largest price increases.

The report states that 20% of house sales in a central auckland area were to foreigners (that also excludes immigrants with foreign incomes). Effectively, people who have an Auckland income source are competing with people who earn a foreign income or built their wealth in another country. Immigration tends favour more successful and thus wealthier people (our points system), and we know New Zealand is still a fairly low wage economy.

So, we have a significant number of wealthy people immigrating to Auckland and Queenstown , low interest rates are allowing locals to borrow more using the same salary. And Auckland council is not releasing more land for development, so house prices explode.

My theory anyway. I don't blame immigrants though, they are acting rationally to do the best for themselves and their families. I'd be doing exactly the same thing.

It's not MY 3% figure. It's the governments. It comes from Stats NZ

tdgeek

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#2082871 2-Sep-2018 19:36

Geektastic:

It's not MY 3% figure. It's the governments. It comes from Stats NZ

Stats NZ are correct. Its a correct stat, its not correct to use that NZ wide, every house stat as a reason for up market house price purchases by foreigners in one city

quickymart

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#2082887 2-Sep-2018 20:22

So...is there any solution to my issue in the near future, or am I basically screwed (barring a Lotto win)? :(

Batman

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#2082894 2-Sep-2018 20:49

Another solution is to buy a house with a good friend with the same goals, combine income.

gzt

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#2082895 2-Sep-2018 20:56

tdgeek: My comment was that mentioning other races that affect us, is not racist. If they were Texas millionaires coming here to happily pay 800k for a 500k house, its the same issue.

Yeah have to say if you're talking about races it does sound racist. Anyone from anywhere could come and make the same investments. Just our bad national and local policy that has not delivered the housing needed in the areas needed, and delivered a rising property market instead.

mudguard

2113 posts

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#2082908 2-Sep-2018 21:33

Batman:

Another solution is to buy a house with a good friend with the same goals, combine income.

Just to point out that banks view this arrangement differently to a couple (well they used to when I worked for one). So the deposit requirements may not be the same.

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