Solar options for home in 2022.

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506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3322244 19-Dec-2024 11:14

All Chinese suppliers (Alibaba, Aliexpress etc) take GST - I believe NZ made that mandatory a few years back from what I recall.

So no extra customs costs

All 16 x EVE batteries I tested were EXACTLY the same voltage to the 1/100th of a volt.

The Basengreen install manual is in full English and VERY well documented and illustrated.

Just had to run the BMS software connected to RS485 port and alter from the default 280000mAH to 300000mAH was the only change

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3322245 19-Dec-2024 11:19

This is with the front panel on and everything plugged in, temperature probes run, bms connected up, etc, just prior to lid going on.

chimera

506 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3322248 19-Dec-2024 11:25

fastbike:

dukezoid: +1 interested!

Don’t wish to be a downer, though reading post #15 prompts some reservations https://diysolarforum.com/threads/basen-green-diy-case-48v-v2.87477/

Is pricing so much better vs local-sourcing CATL or Micromall 48v ~300/340 AH (with benefit of local service and CGA)?

Crikey ! I looked at these 6 months ago when I was speccing up my system, but discounted them as it was obviously going to be a crap shoot as to what actually arrived. That was after several email exchanges. And you can absolutely guarantee no QC.

Back to the OP. I would not want these within 5m of any flammable part of my dwelling. Certainly not in the basement. Maybe in an outhouse with a sprinkler system. And while you are at it, read AS/NZS3000 and figure out how to route/secure wiring that becomes part of your installation.

These could have been the changes they made after you last reviewed them @fastbike?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZ8mg4iw9s

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322249 19-Dec-2024 11:25

An update on the excess grid voltage issues we have been experiencing since a transformer upgrade in our area in September is that Powerco have now installed a voltage logger and are conducting an investigation into the issue. Waiting, waiting....

Meantime our installer has put a proposal to Powerco to allow us to widen the acceptable grid voltage before output is impacted by the inverter's management system. Yesterday's inverter logging is very telling of the situation at play:

Perfect sun conditions as shown by the MPP2 array's bell curve but heavy disruption to MPP1's output. MPP2 is the array whose output is curtailed to comply with our 5kW'phase export limit but the data below shows that we haven't reached 5kW of 'excess' to export, and actually struggled to reach 4.5kW of export at any point yesterday. The disruption to MPP1's output is a result of the inverter limiting its output in response to grid voltage conditions. The voltage hovers around 245V during the peak production period and actually tops 246V (yet again!) at 15:55. It can also be seen that MPP1's output actually recovers during the slight drop in grid voltage (to ~243V) at 15:40 before crashing again when the 246V+ peak that followed.

Also our peak production at around midday topped out at ~7kW whereas we should been seeing our 8.2kW inverter operating at maximum until about 15:00 so our output and export were both severely compromised.

This is the sort of thing to be aware of if your inverter isn't performing as you would expect it to.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dantheperson

174 posts

Master Geek

#3322257 19-Dec-2024 12:25

HarmLessSolutions:

It can also be seen that MPP1's output actually recovers during the slight drop in grid voltage (to ~243V) at 15:40 before crashing again when the 246V+ peak that followed.

Very telling that the voltage drop is when you had some local load in your house. Its like you can turn stuff on and run it for free, as that solar generation would otherwise have been lost. I guess you always have that to a degree with an export cap.

Note for the voltage reading, if you are on solarweb, it is not the most accurate. I saw 245 volts at one point today, when solarweb shows 241 at that time. I don't know if the reading for each 5 minute window is some sort of average, or just a random moment in time during that window. So you can be getting voltage related dropoffs, even if solar web shows the voltage was ok.

My situation doesn't look as bad as yours, yesterday it was jumping up and down between 4.5 - 5.0kW output in response to voltage.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322259 19-Dec-2024 12:37

dantheperson:

Very telling that the voltage drop is when you had some local load in your house. Its like you can turn stuff on and run it for free, as that solar generation would otherwise have been lost. I guess you always have that to a degree with an export cap.

That's not quite the case. The increased load from 11:00 was when I switched the Paladin on to allow diversion to the 3kW HWC. At that point the total generation should have been 8.2kW as there was enough 'headroom' for the 5kW export cap to not be breached but total generation was still compromised. The same situation is even more apparent when the Evnex is trying to put 7kW in our Polestar and even then total generation remains well under 8kW.

The situation is that the inverter senses grid voltage issues and reduces its production to avoid contributing further to the voltage problem it is seeing, and this is irrespective of whether the generation is exported or not.

Maximising generation with a 5kW phase cap is a strategy of always (when available) having a device consuming enough to have the 'headroom' between consumption and generation <5kW to avoid the inverter throttling back to comply with the cap.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

dukezoid

49 posts

Geek

#3322276 19-Dec-2024 13:42

Have any folks had luck with a greater than 5kW export cap?

Vector has put me on 5. However electrician has been permitted higher caps with other clients also in central Auck.

Tried to ask Vector but answers unintelligible / nonsensical (to me) - I.e. cabling on property requires upgrade however if we can pull in 10kW currently why can’t we export 10kW?!

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#3322295 19-Dec-2024 14:25

For vector from ESP009 Technical Requirements for Small-Scale Inverter Connected DG:
"Phase Imbalance
To ensure any voltage imbalance that may be introduced into the Vector distribution network is kept to an acceptable level, the capacity for single phase distributed generators (including the capacity of the connecting inverter) connected to the Vector network shall be limited to 5kW. Three phase distributed generators shall have a balanced output with respect to its capacity with a tolerance of no more than 5kW imbalance between any phases."

So i dont know how others have achieved more

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322312 19-Dec-2024 15:25

dukezoid: Have any folks had luck with a greater than 5kW export cap?

Vector has put me on 5. However electrician has been permitted higher caps with other clients also in central Auck.

Tried to ask Vector but answers unintelligible / nonsensical (to me) - I.e. cabling on property requires upgrade however if we can pull in 10kW currently why can’t we export 10kW?!

AS/NZS 4777.1:2020 is what the lines companies are supposed to be operating under so your answer will lie in those reg's.

From what I understand from our installer, who is an absolute solar expert with ~15 years experience through Europe, Aussie and now NZ, the 5kW phase cap is the only measure that NZ lines companies have to limit grid voltage from increasing solar generation which if not controlled places real stress on grid infrastructure. The typically antiquated infrastructure that NZ lines companies have in place is unable to regulate voltages effectively so export cap is a cheap and dirty attempt at grid protection, that will increasingly fail in doing its job as solar uptake increases.

Australia saw similar issues about a decade back and reduced their nominal grid voltage to 230V, from 240V, to provide a buffer. NZ theoretically now operate on the same 230V nominal voltage but in view of our experience Powerco at least are running supply at 240V to avoid low voltage for the more remote of their customers and those of us further up their lines are experiencing collateral damage of excess grid voltage as a result. It will be interesting to see how the wider voltage parameters that AS/NZS 4777.1:2024 will allow inverters to be set to (i.e. +/-10%) in a few months will impact on the grid infrastructure that we're feeding into.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322314 19-Dec-2024 15:36

Jase2985:

For vector from ESP009 Technical Requirements for Small-Scale Inverter Connected DG:
"Phase Imbalance
To ensure any voltage imbalance that may be introduced into the Vector distribution network is kept to an acceptable level, the capacity for single phase distributed generators (including the capacity of the connecting inverter) connected to the Vector network shall be limited to 5kW. Three phase distributed generators shall have a balanced output with respect to its capacity with a tolerance of no more than 5kW imbalance between any phases."

So i dont know how others have achieved more

If the lines companies' concerns about grid phase imbalance were their primary concern then they could just send out their linesmen down each street and ensure that each alternate house was on a different phase, which would be far more effective than a 5kW/phase export cap. As mentioned above there is no similar limit on consumption limit other than the 63A (~15kW) pole fuse so far more risk of grid imbalance if everyone in the street uses their spa, oven, induction hobs and/or EVSE at the same time (and they're all on the same phase).

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

13457 posts

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#3322456 19-Dec-2024 18:39

HarmLessSolutions:

Jase2985:

For vector from ESP009 Technical Requirements for Small-Scale Inverter Connected DG:
"Phase Imbalance
To ensure any voltage imbalance that may be introduced into the Vector distribution network is kept to an acceptable level, the capacity for single phase distributed generators (including the capacity of the connecting inverter) connected to the Vector network shall be limited to 5kW. Three phase distributed generators shall have a balanced output with respect to its capacity with a tolerance of no more than 5kW imbalance between any phases."

So i dont know how others have achieved more

If the lines companies' concerns about grid phase imbalance were their primary concern then they could just send out their linesmen down each street and ensure that each alternate house was on a different phase, which would be far more effective than a 5kW/phase export cap. As mentioned above there is no similar limit on consumption limit other than the 63A (~15kW) pole fuse so far more risk of grid imbalance if everyone in the street uses their spa, oven, induction hobs and/or EVSE at the same time (and they're all on the same phase).

You would think that would all be on their records....

Vector is working off the 2015 version of the standards i have since found out.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3322461 19-Dec-2024 18:53

HarmLessSolutions:

If the lines companies' concerns about grid phase imbalance were their primary concern then they could just send out their linesmen down each street and ensure that each alternate house was on a different phase, which would be far more effective than a 5kW/phase export cap. As mentioned above there is no similar limit on consumption limit other than the 63A (~15kW) pole fuse so far more risk of grid imbalance if everyone in the street uses their spa, oven, induction hobs and/or EVSE at the same time (and they're all on the same phase).

single phase houses are already on alternating connections. thats how the lines company wires the street. its highly unlikely to have enough heavy users who just happen to all be on the same phase. with enough connections it evens out enough.

if a house goes from using 40 amps to exporting 40 amps, thats an 80amp difference plus the voltage difference. thats a substantial change.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322474 19-Dec-2024 20:28

Jase2985:

HarmLessSolutions:

If the lines companies' concerns about grid phase imbalance were their primary concern then they could just send out their linesmen down each street and ensure that each alternate house was on a different phase, which would be far more effective than a 5kW/phase export cap. As mentioned above there is no similar limit on consumption limit other than the 63A (~15kW) pole fuse so far more risk of grid imbalance if everyone in the street uses their spa, oven, induction hobs and/or EVSE at the same time (and they're all on the same phase).

You would think that would all be on their records....

Vector is working off the 2015 version of the standards i have since found out.

A customer can swap what phase they're hooked into fairly easily. We did when we decided to put the whole place and solar onto just one phase. The lines company would probably be able to interrogate their data to find who is on what phase but unlikely they could be bothered.

Interesting that Vector is still working on 2015 reg's. Our installer has said that if they could use 2015 standards we wouldn't have a problem, and that Powerco were pretty much oblivious about the 2024 version coming in next year. They really do live in their own little world it seems.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

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#3322475 19-Dec-2024 20:31

tweake:

single phase houses are already on alternating connections. thats how the lines company wires the street. its highly unlikely to have enough heavy users who just happen to all be on the same phase. with enough connections it evens out enough.

My single phase house kept on losing power (3 times in 6 months), while the neighbours each side were still on - so just one phase dropping out. Outages were between an hour and several hours, depending how busy the fault crews were.
I complained and eventually they re-balanced the load across the phases: there may have been too many new infill houses on 'my' phase. No problem since.

So you're usually right, but not always
😃

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3322480 19-Dec-2024 21:26

PolicyGuy:

tweake:

single phase houses are already on alternating connections. thats how the lines company wires the street. its highly unlikely to have enough heavy users who just happen to all be on the same phase. with enough connections it evens out enough.

My single phase house kept on losing power (3 times in 6 months), while the neighbours each side were still on - so just one phase dropping out. Outages were between an hour and several hours, depending how busy the fault crews were.
I complained and eventually they re-balanced the load across the phases: there may have been too many new infill houses on 'my' phase. No problem since.

So you're usually right, but not always
😃

While our installer was here extracting data from our inverter at Powerco's request last week he told me about a multi-unit development they were involved with here in New Plymouth. Each dwelling had their own solar array but when the installer approached Powerco for grid access they were turned down, because the dwellings had all been connected to the same phase. Doh!

Developer was instructed to correct the connections to allow their solar to be enabled.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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