Solar options for home in 2022.

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969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3326169 30-Dec-2024 12:39

Jase2985:

HarmLessSolutions:

Are you (or anyone else on Geekzone) familiar enough with transformers to know what tap position this is? The 'arm' seems linked into #2 but the "Tap Position" arrow above indicates #3.

The need to start investing in and installing these

http://www.eteltransformers.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Voltage-regulation-WEB.pdf

Have asked a question about the transformer to someone in the know

Thanks for that link. It suggests that the situation we're experiencing is somewhat endemic in local grids. Whether Powerco are proactive (or even reactive) enough to change out transformers over this issue is unlikely though I suspect, unless enough pressure is applied from their customers.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

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#3326170 30-Dec-2024 12:47

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3326187 30-Dec-2024 13:39

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

Providing the existing transformer is compatible with retrofitting the voltage regulator.

Today's data is interesting in that the overcast morning resulted in a slow start to our generation so the initial grid voltage was 235V but as the skies have cleared and our generation has ramped up so has the grid voltage to >246V again. I'm now wondering what will happen when we are allowed to open up the parameters of our inverter once AS/NZS 4777.1:2024 becomes current and we can assumedly export up to 253V (230V +10%). Maybe Powerco will be more responsive when our neighbours' appliances start failing from excess voltage issues?

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

wired

187 posts

Master Geek

#3326188 30-Dec-2024 13:45

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

the smaller transformers, such as near your house, have off-load tap changers. This means the transformer has to be turned off before the tap can be changed.
The on-load tap changers are more expensive so aren’t used as much. It’s not just a case of adding a voltage regulator.

if you are on a circuit with an on-load tap changer, you will see significant jumps in the voltage. The one near us would always change twice a day producing an interesting graph.

Another thing to note is that a transformer is a fixed voltage ratio machine and therefore a rise in the HV will cause a rise in the LV. They don’t have a “230” volt setting, just a voltage ratio setting. So the power company can control the LV by altering the HV and this is where there are bigger transformers and are more likely to have on-load tap changers and voltage monitoring. However changing the taps on these transformers affects many more customers so it gets more complicated to set.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3326243 30-Dec-2024 14:18

wired:

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

the smaller transformers, such as near your house, have off-load tap changers. This means the transformer has to be turned off before the tap can be changed.
The on-load tap changers are more expensive so aren’t used as much. It’s not just a case of adding a voltage regulator.

if you are on a circuit with an on-load tap changer, you will see significant jumps in the voltage. The one near us would always change twice a day producing an interesting graph.

Another thing to note is that a transformer is a fixed voltage ratio machine and therefore a rise in the HV will cause a rise in the LV. They don’t have a “230” volt setting, just a voltage ratio setting. So the power company can control the LV by altering the HV and this is where there are bigger transformers and are more likely to have on-load tap changers and voltage monitoring. However changing the taps on these transformers affects many more customers so it gets more complicated to set.

@wired, Thanks for your input on this. It confirms what I had suspected in that the new transformer installed in our wider area a few months back, which an associate who is an ex-Powerco employee ID'd it as an "11kV takeoff unit", was likely supplying the HV side of our small local transformer. So, increased HV output resulting in higher HV input to our transformer and therefore higher LV output. Makes sense.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

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#3326244 30-Dec-2024 14:19

wired:

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

the smaller transformers, such as near your house, have off-load tap changers. This means the transformer has to be turned off before the tap can be changed.
The on-load tap changers are more expensive so aren’t used as much. It’s not just a case of adding a voltage regulator.

if you are on a circuit with an on-load tap changer, you will see significant jumps in the voltage. The one near us would always change twice a day producing an interesting graph.

Another thing to note is that a transformer is a fixed voltage ratio machine and therefore a rise in the HV will cause a rise in the LV. They don’t have a “230” volt setting, just a voltage ratio setting. So the power company can control the LV by altering the HV and this is where there are bigger transformers and are more likely to have on-load tap changers and voltage monitoring. However changing the taps on these transformers affects many more customers so it gets more complicated to set.

Thanks for the informative reply

Im going to make a big assumption here and say that most of the local 11kv to 240v transformers don't have voltage regulators as yet as we are only just beginning to see voltage issues on the grid

PolicyGuy

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#3326314 30-Dec-2024 18:12

wired:

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

if you are on a circuit with an on-load tap changer, you will see significant jumps in the voltage. The one near us would always change twice a day producing an interesting graph.

When I was working for a lines company, the on-load tap changers were mechanical, a transformer would have a motor-driven tap that would move from one position to another depending on the sensed voltage. As @wired says, this is (well it was twenty years ago!) stepped, not smooth, function. IIRC the steps were about 1% and ran +/-5% from the mid-point

Jase2985

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#3326322 30-Dec-2024 18:35

PolicyGuy:

wired:

Jase2985:

dont even need to change the transformers, you just add the Voltage regulator to it to automatically adjust the voltage.

if you are on a circuit with an on-load tap changer, you will see significant jumps in the voltage. The one near us would always change twice a day producing an interesting graph.

When I was working for a lines company, the on-load tap changers were mechanical, a transformer would have a motor-driven tap that would move from one position to another depending on the sensed voltage. As @wired says, this is (well it was twenty years ago!) stepped, not smooth, function. IIRC the steps were about 1% and ran +/-5% from the mid-point

the one linked earlier is stepped in 2.5% increments from -7.5% to +2.5%

@HarmLessSolutions my contact suggests it's the numbered wedge where the pin is, as to what it's set to. You can padlock the pin to prevent it being moved

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3326323 30-Dec-2024 18:47

Jase2985:

......

@HarmLessSolutions my contact suggests it's the numbered wedge where the pin is, as to what it's set to. You can padlock the pin to prevent it being moved

That would be the 0% setting then, on a 240V Tx. On that assumption the 235V we saw early this morning was a result of demand at that time of the day lowering the output LV, perhaps milking shed pumps and chillers? If that is the case Powerco really needs to look into stabilising the voltage they're supplying because they're not very successful in doing that presently.

I had assumed it was set at #3/-2.5% but hopefully Powerco will be honest in answering this and other questions I will put to them in a couple of weeks. Their logging should reveal all 😕

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Shindig

1585 posts

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#3326408 31-Dec-2024 07:17

Been quoted:

7.04 kW Solar with Battery Energy Solution including:
16 x Hyundai HiT-H440LE-FB solar panels rated at a 7.04 kW DC maximum
output
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW AC output
1 x BYD HVS 5.1 battery operating at 5.12 kWh cycling capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius 63A-1 Single Phase Smart Meter

$23,820.18

Looking at it, I'll check if the install line items includes scaffolding as we are 2-story house.

Also running my own numbers through openSolar.com, which is a really good free system to use for your own specs.

The little things make the biggest difference.

Jase2985

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#3326486 31-Dec-2024 09:36

One thing to consider is if you want to expand the batteries in the future the HVS only goes to a maximum of 7.7kW/h per stack single phase, so if you wanted to go above that you would need to install a second/third stack of the same size which adds to the cost as you need to pay for the BMS/Base each time you add a new stack. The HVM batteries start at 11kW/h but can go up to 19.3kW/h in the case of your inverter, and can also have multiple stacks.

in other words, the HVM is more future-proof.

Shindig

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#3326489 31-Dec-2024 09:48

Thank you for that, and this is why I love GZ, these nuggets of information from smart people.

I will talk with the quoter.

Thank you @Jase2985.

The little things make the biggest difference.

Jase2985

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#3326490 31-Dec-2024 10:13

Going off what you can get them for in Australia, the BYD HVS 5.1 is about $5,195.00 retail, and the BYD HVM 11.0 is about $8,167.00 retail as an example.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3326498 31-Dec-2024 10:33

The new kid on the block is the Sigenergy system. Stackable battery modules, inverter and DC EV charger with bidirectional charging functionality. Our installer has ecently picked up agency for these. The whole set-up is around $30K, plus panels so not cheap by any means but some very cool features.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3326499 31-Dec-2024 10:36

Shindig:

Been quoted:

7.04 kW Solar with Battery Energy Solution including:
16 x Hyundai HiT-H440LE-FB solar panels rated at a 7.04 kW DC maximum
output
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW AC output
1 x BYD HVS 5.1 battery operating at 5.12 kWh cycling capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius 63A-1 Single Phase Smart Meter

$23,820.18

Looking at it, I'll check if the install line items includes scaffolding as we are 2-story house.

Also running my own numbers through openSolar.com, which is a really good free system to use for your own specs.

I'd be asking why have 7kW of panels feeding a 5kW inverter, which seems to be overkill. I would have thought a 6kW inverter would be better suited and probably not much dearer.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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