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448 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 181184 5-Oct-2015 16:45
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We are going back to studs in our bathroom and kitchen- pulling out the Dux Quest and starting again. We are using contractors except for the painting - so I had better figure out what the flip we should be painting! 

We will  have new gib installed and plastered (professionally). I understand these needs sealing - not just a primer like Resene's Quick dry primer (which is what I've used on new wooden window surrounds). 

My problem is that I want to paint before the kitchen cupboards and bathroom appliances are installed. So we'll have limited time. 

So rather than: 
sealer, 
primer (x2) 
top coat (x2) 

The Mitre 10 chap raves about Zinnser 123 - because you can do a top coat on it within 2 ours http://www.bunnings.co.nz/zinsser-1-2-3-primer-sealer-3-78l-white_p00253273 

Has anyone used it? Do I need to sand it before a top coat? 

For top coat I'm thinking about doing Resene Lustcryl in the bathroom trims and walls  
In the kitchen Lustacryl for the trims and  Spacecoat flat on the wall - as this is an open plan area where the dining and lounge will (evenutally) get painted the same colour. All the benches have up stands  and behind the bench with the cooker and the sink there will be a glass splashback. So I'm thinking I don't need hte tougher semi-gloss in there.  

Does this sound like reasonable system? 

I understand we need to do the sealer/primer under everything including cabinets, showers, vanities etc. But do we do the top coats in these hidden areas too? 

How about the ceiling - is it OK to treat that the same as  the walls? 






I help authors publish their books - DIYPublishing.co.nz

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  # 1400427 5-Oct-2015 16:50
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Ask at a specialist paint store. I can ask a friend of mine who's a trainer at Dulux if you like. Personally I'd go for something made especially for bathrooms. If you go cheap or do it wrong you'll have to remove (very labor intensive) and do again, so be careful.

We had a professional painter do our bathroom, I do remember drying time was significant - we couldn't use the bathroom for at least a day or two after it was finished. Possibly the same for primer and top coats.



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  # 1400434 5-Oct-2015 17:13
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I've used 123 before in a bathroom, but not on a bare surface. With GIB Aqualine they always used to recommend using a pigmented sealer. This is oil based, smells horrible and take a few days to dry, but it sticks well to the waxy surface on Aqualine.   - It might be worth a call to GIB to see what they recommend.

Semigloss Lustacryl will be fine for bathroom walls and ceiling. It goes on nicely and drys hard like an enamel (like it's designed to). Personally I would allow at least 12 hours between coats here, next day if possible. Then a day or two to let it dry before using the shower.

If you try and paint a bathroom in a short space of time, you're going to have a bad time, mostly with the pig sealer. If you don't let that dry properly don't expect your top coat to stick to it. 

I would not go flat on walls, go low sheen, it has way better wipe ability and marks easier. 

Yes you need to top coat everything, undercoats don't have any moisture protection usually, their job is just to provide a good surface for the top coat to stick to. 

 
 
 
 


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  # 1400437 5-Oct-2015 17:18
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Have a look at the Resene website, all the info is there.

Unless they have changed products the best sealer to use is Resene Sureseal, it is an "oil based" product and was the best product they had for sealing the surface.  You can then use acrylic paints over the top of it.

You only need to use the sureseal on new plasterboard (gib).  Most builders don't paint where you can't see.  As you are doing the smart thing and painting before the cabinets go in it will be easier to just paint behind them, it will probably be 30 seconds work with a roller for each coat.

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1400446 5-Oct-2015 17:35
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I've always used Dulux Prepcoat Acrylic Sealer to seal new gib.  Never had any problems with bleeding through.  I always use a new good quality 6mm roller and have never had to sand it before topcoating.  For top coats in the kitchen and bathroom I use Dulux's kitchen and bathroom.  For the ceiling I just use their ceiling paint.

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Master Geek


  # 1400489 5-Oct-2015 18:43
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I work for Wattyl trade centre (not retail store) for 5 years and 5 years before that at resene.

Zinsser 123 primer ain't all that shiz hot.

Have you installed aqualine GiB? If so use either zinsser coverstain or a oil based pigmented sealer for the GiB. Then for wet areas (bathroom) use a good quality acrylic enamel topcoat.

If it was me I'd use coverstain as it also doubles as an excellent general purpose primer.

Yes its oil based but meh. It works better than anything else

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Master Geek


  # 1400496 5-Oct-2015 18:55
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And yup. You're bang on with your plan. Resene have a sale on ATM but I highly suggest finding your local Wattyl trade centre and enquiring as to pricing. Tell them John from new Plymouth TPC told you to go in and that I mentioned T4

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Master Geek


  # 1400500 5-Oct-2015 19:08
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Cover stain also dries and is recoatable in an hour

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 1400520 5-Oct-2015 20:01
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I use resene products. For wall board  / ceiling its been sealer and a couple of topcoats. I'd go back to resene and ask their advice.

Couple of points though for your plan. Make sure you get paint in the Kitchen that is scrubable. We haven't worried about a splashback behind the hob. The paint withstands curries and sauce splashes. Also make sure you allow time to sand walls between coats. And finally make sure you give your bathroom heaps of time to dry off the top coat - at least two days. 

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  # 1400543 5-Oct-2015 20:15
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For a new bathroom, I used one coat of Resene Sureseal followed by two coats of Resene Spacecote (kitchen and bathroom version). After a year, it still seems all fine. There was some sort of resin bleed from it just after first contact with steam from the shower, which I had to wipe off. It wasn't a big deal, and there is some information on that on the Resene website from memory.

Our other bathroom has the same undercoat, but with Resene Lustacryl as the top coats. The Lustacryl seems to be a bit harder wearing and easier to wipe down. It's also a bit shinier, so imperfections in the paint job show up more easily. We didn't use the "kitchen and bathroom" version with the anti-mould additive in it for that bathroom, which was a mistake.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 1400617 5-Oct-2015 23:20
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froob: 

Our other bathroom has the same undercoat, but with Resene Lustacryl as the top coats. The Lustacryl seems to be a bit harder wearing and easier to wipe down. It's also a bit shinier, so imperfections in the paint job show up more easily. We didn't use the "kitchen and bathroom" version with the anti-mould additive in it for that bathroom, which was a mistake.
 

Why do you say that? The bathroom is south side - but even in its current unheated, poorly insulated, state it's never grown mould - i run the fan and open the window. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice - guess I'm off to some "proper" paint shops fo and hopefully  I can get them to match mitre 10 for price! 




I help authors publish their books - DIYPublishing.co.nz

112 posts

Master Geek


  # 1400626 6-Oct-2015 00:10
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Surfactant leeching. The nemisis of bathroom repaints.

But yeah ventilation is king. Decent ventilation excludes a lot of issues.

Lustacryl I like in wet areas. We sell ultraproof at my work. Same thing different name. I've used both a eggshell finish and a satin finish. Something with a bit of sheen to it cleans easier.

After putting the top coats on, avoid using a heater or dehumidifier. These are bad bad bad. A fan to move air around = fantastic.

Sounds like ya got it sorted

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  # 1400666 6-Oct-2015 08:18
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lissie:
froob: 

Our other bathroom has the same undercoat, but with Resene Lustacryl as the top coats. The Lustacryl seems to be a bit harder wearing and easier to wipe down. It's also a bit shinier, so imperfections in the paint job show up more easily. We didn't use the "kitchen and bathroom" version with the anti-mould additive in it for that bathroom, which was a mistake.
 

Why do you say that? The bathroom is south side - but even in its current unheated, poorly insulated, state it's never grown mould - i run the fan and open the window. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice - guess I'm off to some "proper" paint shops fo and hopefully  I can get them to match mitre 10 for price! 


We still have the odd patch of mould, despite ventilation. I think it's worth having the extra line of defence through the kitchen and bathroom paint, even if ultimately it's not needed.



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Ultimate Geek


  # 1400695 6-Oct-2015 08:33
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nzviking: Surfactant leeching. The nemisis of bathroom repaints.


After putting the top coats on, avoid using a heater or dehumidifier. These are bad bad bad. A fan to move air around = fantastic.

Sounds like ya got it sorted


But they  ALWAYS do that on TV - you saying it doesn't work!!! Plus my builder has informed me that hte builder won't be on site every day cause  its a small room and they can't have trades on top of each other - I'm gutted I thought it would be like Reno Rumble with 25 people in an ensuite! 




I help authors publish their books - DIYPublishing.co.nz

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  # 1400703 6-Oct-2015 08:53
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nzviking: Surfactant leeching. The nemisis of bathroom repaints.
 


At the risk of thread cr@ping (but will hopefully show others what not to do!), I wonder if this is the problem we have; we had a small bathroom built about two years ago as part of an external HT, and did the painting ourselves. I can't remember the type of paint we used, but clearly we did something wrong!

Whenever it gets steamed up from the shower colour runs from the paint, like the pigment is coming out. I had wondered if it was something wrong with the paint itself (like too much pigment in the wrong base), but now I wonder if this is this the "surfactant leeching" you mentioned?

If so, what is the easiest way of dealing with this? I know we used a pigmented sealent on the gib (aqualine), but I assume it's something to do with the top coat paint we used. Can we just give it a light sand and put on a coat or two of the more appropriate paint (whichever that may be)? I really don't want to have to take it all the way back!

Thanks for any advice...

112 posts

Master Geek


  # 1401178 6-Oct-2015 18:03
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jonathan18:
nzviking: Surfactant leeching. The nemisis of bathroom repaints.
 


At the risk of thread cr@ping (but will hopefully show others what not to do!), I wonder if this is the problem we have; we had a small bathroom built about two years ago as part of an external HT, and did the painting ourselves. I can't remember the type of paint we used, but clearly we did something wrong!

Whenever it gets steamed up from the shower colour runs from the paint, like the pigment is coming out. I had wondered if it was something wrong with the paint itself (like too much pigment in the wrong base), but now I wonder if this is this the "surfactant leeching" you mentioned?

If so, what is the easiest way of dealing with this? I know we used a pigmented sealent on the gib (aqualine), but I assume it's something to do with the top coat paint we used. Can we just give it a light sand and put on a coat or two of the more appropriate paint (whichever that may be)? I really don't want to have to take it all the way back!

Thanks for any advice...


right, so a bit of wizzy background knowledge on this. I'll put it out in simple terms;

When paint is applied to a substrate, whether it be GIB, wood, pinex, window frames etc, it relies on a certain temperature range to dry and a certain humidty to dry properly. 
Paint drying under normal ideal conditions (18 degrees and not more than 65% humidity) it forms a skin which is permeable. evaporation continues until the remaining ingredients in the paint start to coalesce or knit together (cross linking acrylic resins etc) 

So, if the paint drys too quick or too slow you can damage the lifetime of the paint, but when it comes to bathrooms you enter into a new issue, and that's moisture being reintroduced onto the surface or near the surface. You've finished painting your walls in the bathroom, they look really nice, sweet, back of the can says its dry in 2 to 4 hours (acrylic enamel) so you think, sweet, i'll be safe and leave it a few days.  what happens a few days later is you have a shower, moisture sits on the surface of the paint and basically acts like a sponge and draws out the surfactants that are still required for the curing process underneath the dry paint surface, this appears as either a nicotene coloured stain, or white blemish, kinda like white snakes down the walls.

Its not the paint being over tinted or under stirred or not being applied correctly, its just that the paint takes up to 6 WEEKS to cure properly and any moisture on it before then CAN interfere with how the paint behaves.  Best thing to do when fresh paint is applied to a wet area wall, is to have decent ventilation for a start, keep showers short and then once down use a nice soft towel and wipe down the walls gently with it, i find it works well with a towel around the end of a house broom.

If you have staining present and the paint is still less than 6 weeks old, DONT use cleaning product on it, just gently wipe with a damp cloth once a day, then after a few months go into resene and find some of their paintwork cleaner, which is designed for cleaning water stains and surfactant leeching off walls etc.

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