Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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#1277179 4-Apr-2015 17:05

I'm surprised how many people I meet, that aren't overly technical, that are using unblock us, unotelly etc. Word's getting out, a lot of people have friends who can help them get sorted with the set up, the genie is out of the box

lchiu7

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#1277187 4-Apr-2015 17:21

dafman: I'm surprised how many people I meet, that aren't overly technical, that are using unblock us, unotelly etc. Word's getting out, a lot of people have friends who can help them get sorted with the set up, the genie is out of the box

Idly curious how much harder it would be if Netflix or Amazon insisted on a US credit card with US billing address and did address verification?

It seems easy enough to get a US prepaid debit card that looks like a US credit card but it might not pass address verification.

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#1277188 4-Apr-2015 17:24

They _really_ dont want to do something like that, because of how many people in the US are without banks and rely on prepaid or employer provided debit cards that dont really support the address verification.

Richard rich.ms

NonprayingMantis

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#1277189 4-Apr-2015 17:27

lchiu7:
dafman: I'm surprised how many people I meet, that aren't overly technical, that are using unblock us, unotelly etc. Word's getting out, a lot of people have friends who can help them get sorted with the set up, the genie is out of the box

Idly curious how much harder it would be if Netflix or Amazon insisted on a US credit card with US billing address and did address verification?

It seems easy enough to get a US prepaid debit card that looks like a US credit card but it might not pass address verification.

Prior to Netflix launching in NZ, it would have been quite a bit of hassle for most people had they done that. Possible to get around with stuff like the airnz one card etc, but a pain. For most people. Not worth the hassle.

But since Netflix has now launched in NZ it is irrelevant since people can sign up in NZ using NZ credit card, then use global mode (or unblockus etc) to switch to the U.S. site.

richms

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#1277191 4-Apr-2015 17:29

I have never had the problesm with my credit or debit card when registering for things like this. Not like microsoft and sony's stores which refuse to take my NZ card even via paypal on a US account.

Richard rich.ms

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#1277192 4-Apr-2015 17:35

lchiu7:

Idly curious how much harder it would be if Netflix or Amazon insisted on a US credit card with US billing address and did address verification?

It seems easy enough to get a US prepaid debit card that looks like a US credit card but it might not pass address verification.

Don't forget that things don't stay the same. This is the mistake the media companies are making. Even if they do succeed in closing current doors, which I very much doubt, new ones will open. How long do you think it will take before companies start popping up enabling overseas customers to spoof US credit cards and addresses? This already exists to some extent.

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#1277198 4-Apr-2015 18:23

Article on 1 news shortly

mdf

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#1277201 4-Apr-2015 18:47

Rikkitic:
mdf:

Essentially a work that is protected by a technical measure to stop copying/infringing is a "TPM work". A TPM circumvention device is a device (or "means" - a method I think) that is primarily designed, produced, or adapted for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of a technological protection measure; and has only limited commercially significant application except for its use in circumventing a technological protection measure.

You can't provide a TPM circumvention device/service (section 226A):

I looked into this when the Act came into effect. If this provision was actually enforced, Dick Smith, Harvey Norman and practically any other retailer of electronics goods in New Zealand would have to go to jail. To take just one example (there are many others), a simple device that converts different analogue video outputs to other formats (VGA, s-video or composite, for example) , also strips any copy protection signals in the process. I discovered this when I was trying to copy some protected VHS tapes. Admittedly, this was a long time ago and the technology has changed, but the principle remains. Even if I just film a video off the screen with my Harvey Norman camcorder, I am using a TPM circumvention device and I have been led into temptation by evil HN. It doesn't matter that the new video is lower quality than the old. The content has been copied and the technical protection has been circumvented. This is just yet another example of a stupid law dreamt up by incompetent lawmakers who don't understand the technology they are trying to regulate. Or maybe a camcorder doesn't fit the definition because it isn't primarily intended for copyright circumvention? There are thousands and thousands of bad DVDs for sale in Indonesia, China and elsewhere that were all made with camcorders in cinemas. If that isn't a primary use, I sure don't know what is. These laws are ridiculous and everyone (except the lawmakers) knows that.

Bouncing back to an earlier part of the thread.

The issue is that a circumvention device must be primarily designed etc. to circumvent a copyright technical protection measure. IIRC, this came up in the Kazaa litigation. At least one judge held that Kazaa (or whichever file sharing service was involved) was capable of a substantial non-infringing purpose. So video conversion cables/devices have a substantial non-infringing use of transcoding your own copyrighted materials (home movies etc.). Similarly video camcorders are capable of lots of non-infringing uses (home movies, amateur movies etc.), even though they can be used to infringe.

I'm not sure what uses there are for global mode that aren't designed to circumvent something (cough, "people staying with you from overseas" cough). But maybe I'm wrong there?

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#1277221 4-Apr-2015 19:56

Oblivian: Article on 1 news shortly

I was gobsmacked by tvnz pitching global mode as enabling people to access overseas content for free, as opposed to the incredibly more accurate tag of freely accessing overseas content.

reven

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#1277222 4-Apr-2015 19:59

well now I wont be buying any of those services ever.

I was rooting for lightbox, but not any more.

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#1277225 4-Apr-2015 20:01

Dratsab:
Oblivian: Article on 1 news shortly

I was gobsmacked by tvnz pitching global mode as enabling people to access overseas content for free, as opposed to the incredibly more accurate tag of freely accessing overseas content.

yes that was a clanger , wondering who else like myself is paying for their Netflix and Hulu subs

I certainly don't get them for "free" lol

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lchiu7

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#1277228 4-Apr-2015 20:16

richms: I have never had the problesm with my credit or debit card when registering for things like this. Not like microsoft and sony's stores which refuse to take my NZ card even via paypal on a US account.

I have experienced the same problem with Microsoft with a NZ credit card and had to use a US one (a real one, not a virtual debit).

My point was, in deference to the complaints about bypassing geo-blocking, what if the providers went to credit card verification processes? It's not hard for them and can be done automatically and would perhaps go some way towards assuaging the complaints of the local providers. If a person can bypass that, then more power to them.

Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD. https://www.airbnb.co.nz/h/wellycbd PM me and mention GZ to get a 15% discount and no AirBnB charges.

richms

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#1277233 4-Apr-2015 20:50

lchiu7:
richms: I have never had the problesm with my credit or debit card when registering for things like this. Not like microsoft and sony's stores which refuse to take my NZ card even via paypal on a US account.

I have experienced the same problem with Microsoft with a NZ credit card and had to use a US one (a real one, not a virtual debit).

My point was, in deference to the complaints about bypassing geo-blocking, what if the providers went to credit card verification processes? It's not hard for them and can be done automatically and would perhaps go some way towards assuaging the complaints of the local providers. If a person can bypass that, then more power to them.

Then they have to start to do gift cards etc for people who cant/wont get a real credit card with an address to verify to, and then try to stop those from all being sold online to anyone who wants like happens with the play card, itunes cards, etc already.

Would just inconvinence people for a little while.

If they go as far as HBO with needing a cable or whatever sub to even get an account, then they are going too far as they are trying to kill cable off.

Richard rich.ms

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#1277234 4-Apr-2015 20:59

Dratsab:
Oblivian: Article on 1 news shortly

I was gobsmacked by tvnz pitching global mode as enabling people to access overseas content for free, as opposed to the incredibly more accurate tag of freely accessing overseas content.

why goiibsmacked?

e.g. BBC iPlayer, NBC, ABC, Hulu. They are normally geoblocked, but with unblock-us (and presumably global mode) I can access them, and for free
Also, if you have a Netflix NZ subscription, global mode enables you to get access to overseas Netflix content for free.

NonprayingMantis

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#1277235 4-Apr-2015 21:06

mdf:
Rikkitic:
mdf:

Essentially a work that is protected by a technical measure to stop copying/infringing is a "TPM work". A TPM circumvention device is a device (or "means" - a method I think) that is primarily designed, produced, or adapted for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of a technological protection measure; and has only limited commercially significant application except for its use in circumventing a technological protection measure.

You can't provide a TPM circumvention device/service (section 226A):

I looked into this when the Act came into effect. If this provision was actually enforced, Dick Smith, Harvey Norman and practically any other retailer of electronics goods in New Zealand would have to go to jail. To take just one example (there are many others), a simple device that converts different analogue video outputs to other formats (VGA, s-video or composite, for example) , also strips any copy protection signals in the process. I discovered this when I was trying to copy some protected VHS tapes. Admittedly, this was a long time ago and the technology has changed, but the principle remains. Even if I just film a video off the screen with my Harvey Norman camcorder, I am using a TPM circumvention device and I have been led into temptation by evil HN. It doesn't matter that the new video is lower quality than the old. The content has been copied and the technical protection has been circumvented. This is just yet another example of a stupid law dreamt up by incompetent lawmakers who don't understand the technology they are trying to regulate. Or maybe a camcorder doesn't fit the definition because it isn't primarily intended for copyright circumvention? There are thousands and thousands of bad DVDs for sale in Indonesia, China and elsewhere that were all made with camcorders in cinemas. If that isn't a primary use, I sure don't know what is. These laws are ridiculous and everyone (except the lawmakers) knows that.

Bouncing back to an earlier part of the thread.

The issue is that a circumvention device must be primarily designed etc. to circumvent a copyright technical protection measure. IIRC, this came up in the Kazaa litigation. At least one judge held that Kazaa (or whichever file sharing service was involved) was capable of a substantial non-infringing purpose. So video conversion cables/devices have a substantial non-infringing use of transcoding your own copyrighted materials (home movies etc.). Similarly video camcorders are capable of lots of non-infringing uses (home movies, amateur movies etc.), even though they can be used to infringe.

I'm not sure what uses there are for global mode that aren't designed to circumvent something (cough, "people staying with you from overseas" cough). But maybe I'm wrong there?

Callplus are hanging their hat on this part, which seem to exclude 'geoblocking' from being a TPM

226Definitions of TPM terms

In sections 226A to 226E, unless the context otherwise requires,—

TPM or technological protection measure—
- (a)means any process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system that in the normal course of its operation prevents or inhibits the infringement of copyright in a TPM work; but
- (b)for the avoidance of doubt, does not include a process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that, in the normal course of operation, it only controls any access to a work for non-infringing purposes (for example, it does not include a process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that it controls geographic market segmentation by preventing the playback in New Zealand of a non-infringing copy of a work)

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