Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1278965 8-Apr-2015 12:32

DickDastardly: It does sound like these big 4 throwing their toys out of their prams and having a bit of a sulk.

I hope they aren't successful with their challenge to stop the ISP Global Modes....more choice for the customer without paying the earth for something would be every New Zealanders preference I suspect - although a view not "The Darkside" represented by Sky, TVNZ, Lightbox etc.

Give customers the content they want, quality programming that isn't mindless reality cookery, home renovation, rubbish talent shows etc - stop dropping series half way through, Sky - your too expensive with all your extra's, HD ticket, Soho etc etc and you don't have enough HD content!

Face it "The Darkside" times they are a-changin' and this latest threatening letter seems a bit of a last ditch attempt at saving face and your "comfortable" audience/subscribers. Technology is going to bring a lot of changes to the way we watch and subscribe to our media - and unless The Darkside go with it - they will loose viewers/subscribers and that will kinda be their own fault.....

given the alternative to global mode is to use Unblock-us or Unotelly at less than $5 per month, I would hardly call that 'paying the earth'

DickDastardly

227 posts

Master Geek

#1278967 8-Apr-2015 12:35

NonprayingMantis:
DickDastardly: It does sound like these big 4 throwing their toys out of their prams and having a bit of a sulk.

I hope they aren't successful with their challenge to stop the ISP Global Modes....more choice for the customer without paying the earth for something would be every New Zealanders preference I suspect - although a view not "The Darkside" represented by Sky, TVNZ, Lightbox etc.

Give customers the content they want, quality programming that isn't mindless reality cookery, home renovation, rubbish talent shows etc - stop dropping series half way through, Sky - your too expensive with all your extra's, HD ticket, Soho etc etc and you don't have enough HD content!

Face it "The Darkside" times they are a-changin' and this latest threatening letter seems a bit of a last ditch attempt at saving face and your "comfortable" audience/subscribers. Technology is going to bring a lot of changes to the way we watch and subscribe to our media - and unless The Darkside go with it - they will loose viewers/subscribers and that will kinda be their own fault.....

given the alternative to global mode is to use Unblock-us or Unotelly at less than $5 per month, I would hardly call that 'paying the earth'

Totally agree with you.....I was kind of referring to the "premium" content channels as advertised by Sky.....Sports is a case in point.....where is NZ Free to Air sports??

I don't want no sugar in it - thank you very much

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1278969 8-Apr-2015 12:39

That is a good point Nonprayingmantis has made... this is only a suit against local global modes, not the general availability of DNS/VPN services that are based offshore. Only the rights holders could force them to be blocked, such as catchuptv in the UK had done to them by BBC and the other broadcasters. For the NZ Broadcasters, it is about ensuring that their legal and rightful contracts with the rights holders are enforced within the boundaries of this land by preventing services operated by companies in New Zealand compromising those contracts, a fair enough point given they have legal and exclusive distribution rights for content within NZ. Sure its a bummer and not get for the consumer, but the consumer does not own the content and is not able to dictate the terms of the distribution.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1278970 8-Apr-2015 12:41

DickDastardly:
NonprayingMantis:
DickDastardly: It does sound like these big 4 throwing their toys out of their prams and having a bit of a sulk.

I hope they aren't successful with their challenge to stop the ISP Global Modes....more choice for the customer without paying the earth for something would be every New Zealanders preference I suspect - although a view not "The Darkside" represented by Sky, TVNZ, Lightbox etc.

Give customers the content they want, quality programming that isn't mindless reality cookery, home renovation, rubbish talent shows etc - stop dropping series half way through, Sky - your too expensive with all your extra's, HD ticket, Soho etc etc and you don't have enough HD content!

Face it "The Darkside" times they are a-changin' and this latest threatening letter seems a bit of a last ditch attempt at saving face and your "comfortable" audience/subscribers. Technology is going to bring a lot of changes to the way we watch and subscribe to our media - and unless The Darkside go with it - they will loose viewers/subscribers and that will kinda be their own fault.....

given the alternative to global mode is to use Unblock-us or Unotelly at less than $5 per month, I would hardly call that 'paying the earth'

Totally agree with you.....I was kind of referring to the "premium" content channels as advertised by Sky.....Sports is a case in point.....where is NZ Free to Air sports??

If you mean domestic sports, then TV3 carries some and Sommet tried to. If you mean overseas sports (EPL etc.) then that is down to price. The cost to purchase these are huge, even the rugby will cost a fortune. The only way for the cost of 'products' to reduce to the point where a FTA service can carry them is if the rights holders have a change of heart/business model or the content is regulated by government.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1278972 8-Apr-2015 12:46

StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic: “We pay considerable amounts of money for content rights, particularly exclusive content rights."

How about this, then? Stop paying all that money and we will watch the content overseas. Everyone wins.

kind of ironic considering how many people have been clamouring for years for NZ providers to launch SVOD services. Now that they do, we decide we don't want them and would rather keep subscribing to overseas providers.

and yes, Netflix US is better than any NZ service (including Netflix NZ), but that should surprise absolutely nobody.

think about all the times people have been begging and pleading with Netflix to please please launch in NZ, and now that they do everybody goes 'meh, that sucks. We'll just use Netflix USA'.

The problem is that we have been waiting so long for decent online content that those who can, have gone elsewhere. The genie is out of the bottle and is riding on the back of the horse that bolted. All the NZ domestic offerings are a "me too" platform which were formed due to the increasing interest in obtaining overseas content. Netflix said there was insufficient demand to launch in NZ - we have proven otherwise and they have come to the party. I'm sure it's not coincidence that they all started within months of each other.

indeed, Quickflix and Lightbox launched before Netflix announced they would enter NZ market. Netflix said they wouldn't launch in NZ in 2011. Quickflix launched in NZ around March 2012. Lightbox launched July 2014 (and would have had at least 18months build time ahead of that).
So it seems like the NZ providers were actually making more effort to serve kiwis than Netflix was, especially given just how weak the Netflix NZ content line-up actually is.

I won't be signing up to Lightbox or Neon any time soon due to their restrictions to x devices (enforced by their negotiated contract) and relative lack of content due to "exclusive" contracts they use to fight each other over such a limited audience.

you do know that Netflix also engages in exclusive contracts too, right?

In fact they have signalled it as one of the pillars of their strategies going forward

http://ir.netflix.com/faq.cfm

" Why are you moving towards more exclusive content arrangements which must cost more? We want to offer a differentiated service. We are focused on becoming an expert programmer that provides a high-quality, curated offering and therefore have increasingly licensed content on an exclusive basis."

Perhaps they should stop spending the money on lawyers and buying overpriced procedural content, NZ broadcasters should start looking at creating decent content - no more "reality TV" please. Once NZ has something to sell, it may be able to negotiate better for what it purchases.

We have the talent to make world class films, let's make world class TV.

making quality content is hella-expensive. For an NZ provider to invest in creating content, they would havce to be assured of multiple large scale international distribution deals to be worth the risk (unlike, say, HBO, which has a nice regalur cashflow from Cable Tv in the states to reduce the risk of creating content).

Lightbox has a pretty decent range of TV content for $25-30m. Or they could have spent the same money to create one single season of (potentially) good TV. (game of thrones costs $6m USD per episode.) There is no way they are going to take that money and put it on a single horse like that. it would be crazy.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1278978 8-Apr-2015 13:06

stuff interviewed a law professor who seems to think it may not be as 'cut and dried' as some might think

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/67642415/global-mode-could-lose-online-tv-challenge

"

But Canterbury University law professor Ursula Cheer said the television companies had an arguable case and a possible precedent in their favour.

Global Mode could be on a sticky wicket, she said.

Cheer pointed to a judgment issued in favour of South Korean company Munhwa, which succeeded in obtaining an interim injunction against Kiwi company Young International in 2010.

The injunction prevented Young from retransmitting over the internet Korean language programme streams that it had legitimately purchased in Korea and was on-selling to customers in New Zealand, to the alleged detriment of a local licence holder, World TV.

The Munhwa case never went to a full trial and Cheer said the circumstances surrounding Global Mode differed in some respects. But she said the courts would be likely to take a "common sense" view as to what was occurring rather than getting hung up on any technological niceties.

"Overall I think the courts will be looking to see whether there has been any wrong committed that has resulted in harm to another party," she said."

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1278983 8-Apr-2015 13:17

NonprayingMantis: Lightbox has a pretty decent range of TV content for $25-30m. Or they could have spent the same money to create one single season of (potentially) good TV. (game of thrones costs $6m USD per episode.) There is no way they are going to take that money and put it on a single horse like that. it would be crazy.

Lightbox may have a decent range for their money, but at the sacrifice of delivery. I personally, do not want to be restricted to 5 devices and don't have to be if I use Netflix. Netflix is therefore my platform of choice. Unfortunately, Netflix NZ does not have all the content I would like to view so I, like many others, utilise the offerings of the global Netflix market by using UnoTelly.

As for content production, I don't see Lightbox in that group - that comment was aimed more at TVNZ, Mediaworks and to an extent Sky. To paraphrase the words of Rizzle Kicks "Reality TV is Morphine", it leaves me feeling numb. Yes we have huge ratings for it in NZ but I know we can do better. I'd like to see more documentaries, more programs for kids that do not involve either animation or screeching American wanabes. To answer an earlier (tongue in cheek) comment, yes Blue Peter is still on the go - probably because it targets the kids with a fantastic mix of content to keep viewers of all ages engaged - why can't we do this? My kids (aged 15 and 11) loved CBBC and other youth programming while in England over Christmas and still watch it from time-to-time (when I'm not hogging the only smart TV that has been set up as the UK).

Procrastination eventually pays off.

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mattwnz

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#1278984 8-Apr-2015 13:21

From what I have seem going on, I think it is time for content to be regulated, to bring some real competition into the media market. So content is purchased by some central organisation, similar to Pharmac or even Chorus, which gives them better buying power. Then providers can bid for that content, or it is shared between multiple providers. This prevents companies getting monopolies on content such as sport. Really the current model is dead. Separating the content buyer, from the broadcaster I think is the best longer term solution. It may then allow companies like netflix to actually be able to show content in NZ that they actually produced, if they buy back the rights to show it in NZ

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1278985 8-Apr-2015 13:22

NonprayingMantis: stuff interviewed a law professor who seems to think it may not be as 'cut and dried' as some might think

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/67642415/global-mode-could-lose-online-tv-challenge

" But Canterbury University law professor Ursula Cheer said the television companies had an arguable case and a possible precedent in their favour. Global Mode could be on a sticky wicket, she said. Cheer pointed to a judgment issued in favour of South Korean company Munhwa, which succeeded in obtaining an interim injunction against Kiwi company Young International in 2010. The injunction prevented Young from retransmitting over the internet Korean language programme streams that it had legitimately purchased in Korea and was on-selling to customers in New Zealand, to the alleged detriment of a local licence holder, World TV. The Munhwa case never went to a full trial and Cheer said the circumstances surrounding Global Mode differed in some respects. But she said the courts would be likely to take a "common sense" view as to what was occurring rather than getting hung up on any technological niceties. "Overall I think the courts will be looking to see whether there has been any wrong committed that has resulted in harm to another party," she said."

CallPlus does not retransmit anything, they mask the country of origin to allow free trade with foreign providers. Retransmitting is in clear breach of copyright and has been tested many times the world over.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

ddwagnz

44 posts

Geek

#1278986 8-Apr-2015 13:25

macuser: Thread theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM

I was expecting this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1279010 8-Apr-2015 13:38

ddwagnz:
macuser: Thread theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM

I was expecting this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

If CallPlus lose then more like this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fVDAjs9f0

Procrastination eventually pays off.

loceff13

1065 posts

Uber Geek

#1279011 8-Apr-2015 13:38

NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic: “We pay considerable amounts of money for content rights, particularly exclusive content rights."

How about this, then? Stop paying all that money and we will watch the content overseas. Everyone wins.

kind of ironic considering how many people have been clamouring for years for NZ providers to launch SVOD services. Now that they do, we decide we don't want them and would rather keep subscribing to overseas providers.

and yes, Netflix US is better than any NZ service (including Netflix NZ), but that should surprise absolutely nobody.

think about all the times people have been begging and pleading with Netflix to please please launch in NZ, and now that they do everybody goes 'meh, that sucks. We'll just use Netflix USA'.

Yeah and we got:

1 ok service - Lightbox - lacking a broad range of device support etc and adaptive only
1 ok service - Netflix - Crippled by it's content library
1 poor service - Neon - 40% price premium over the other platforms and in SD but has some newer movies/popular shows

dclegg

2806 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1279014 8-Apr-2015 13:40

The letter sent to Bypass Network Services can be viewed here.

Not unexpectedly, there's a lot of legal posturing based on points not yet proven in a court of law. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

While I grok why the media companies here feel they need to do this, I think they are attacking the problem from the completely wrong angle. They should be able to differentiate from the overseas SVOD providers by filling their cupboards with local content, and possibly even get some of the quality programming from across the ditch.

Even if they are successful here, they would've not stopped parallel importing of content. They'd simply make it a little harder for people to do so. And now that non-tech users have had a taste, thanks to Global Mode, they'll be more motivated to investigate the alternatives out there (which really are pretty easy to configure).

As an example on the content front, I've been watching The Almighty Johnsons on Netflix. It is not currently offered by any of the local SVOD providers, including Netflix NZ (which would tend to suggest a local company still has the rights). Despite the dreadful reality TV heavy local content that is is currently shown on NZ TV, there are actually a few gems that have been created over the years.

And local providers really need to lift their game in the content delivery stakes. Another NZ show I wouldn't mind revisiting is This Is Not My Life. Currently it is only available on TVNZ on Demand (according to lemon.tv), and that is a service that I've never had much luck getting onto our TV. There used to be a PS3 app, but the quality and reliability was terrible.

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1279035 8-Apr-2015 14:06

dclegg: The letter sent to Bypass Network Services can be viewed here.

Not unexpectedly, there's a lot of legal posturing based on points not yet proven in a court of law. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

Fascinating. I see nothing in there which shows existing precedent and still struggle to see how GlobalMode is any different to YouShop.

Example being that

a. [Amazon] only has licence to distribute [Nike trainers] to the domestic USA and so restricts distribution to addresses outside the USA to protect worldwide distribution deals. [YouShop] is knowingly violating this restriction on this product by allowing customers of [Amazon] to send the goods to a US address. Perfectly legal and called parallel importing.

or

b. [Netflix US] only has licence to distribute [TV episodes] to the domestic USA and so restricts distribution to addresses outside the USA to protect worldwide distribution deals. [GlobalMode] is knowingly violating this restriction on this product by allowing customers of [Netflix US] to send the goods to a US address. Apparently not legal according to the Big 4.

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said dozens of time before and hopefully the courts will also see it this way also otherwise they will next be going after VPN/DNS providers. I'm also sure Whitcoulls et al are watching this with great interest because if the Big 4 win, it could set a legal precedence for NZ retailers to make the same argument.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#1279043 8-Apr-2015 14:12

Example A) only stacks up in the New Zealand context IF a local distributer here in New Zealand has exclusive rights to distribute Nikes. Sure if Amazon distribute to someone a pair of Nikes outside of the US, they are breaching their contract but as long as there is no distribution exclusivity here in New Zealand then serving NZ hasn't broken any local distribution rights. This whole argument is around local rights at present, not international.

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