Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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956 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1330511 24-Jun-2015 11:05

NonprayingMantis: as an interesting speculative aside, I assume that by having global mode on 'their' network, it meant Callplus could easily cache content from Netflix US etc rather than it costing them international bandwidth. (no way could they actually afford to have a large proportion of their base streaming 3-7Mbps HD content from the states at peak times)

If they can't do that anymore, and people switch to unblock-us, unotelly, or VPNS etc, that will, I believe, totally bypass any Callplus cache. So this could mean Callplus are in for a rude shock on international bandwidth costs?

I don't know enough about network engineering to know if that is true or not. Anybody care to comment?

I don't think DRM/encrypted content is cacheable anyway so wouldn't make a difference. ISP's need the Netflix OpenConnect appliance to cache Netflix content for example.

macuser

2120 posts

Uber Geek

#1330512 24-Jun-2015 11:14

The dumbest thing about this is that it was essentially a $5 discount every month, which made Callplus very cheap compared to other providers. Now Callplus is increasing prices and removing features.

jen1001

256 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#1330515 24-Jun-2015 11:22

mrtoken:
browned: So will this decision really affect many people?

I will carry on doing what I do with my systems and services. so no change here.

I think it will just affect the non tech people that found out they could get US netflix without having to do anything.
Anyone that knows anything about it knows that there are other ways of getting the content.

That's true, although I think many non techies will be surprised to see how easy it is to just get Unotelly or DNS4me.

The only reason I was reluctant in the past was that it sounded a bit like a minefield trying to change settings on my router or individual devices but it was a piece of cake. Very happy with DNS4me so far!

floydie

474 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1330517 24-Jun-2015 11:23

So im expecting a discount from slingshot....

so can anyone recomend a fiber provider that has a good router with 5ghz wifi. i heard the slingshot one was crap anyway

ronw

1222 posts

Uber Geek

#1330523 24-Jun-2015 11:34

I remember reading that Australia have a bill going before their parliament that will make use of VPN's illegal with the only exemption will be using an Australian owned and located VPN. I also understand that NZ is considering a bill along same lines.
Update Australia has just passed the bill. Can read some of the things about it here http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/06/its-over-australias-site-blocking-anti-piracy-bill-just-passed-the-senate/

Including in the bill is provision to outlaw VPN's to get around the restrictionjs but not sure how they will manage that

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bazzer

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#1330525 24-Jun-2015 11:38

NonprayingMantis: The fact that the settlement means Callplus are withdrawing global mode should tell you who was likely to win in court (i.e. not callplus). If callplus thought they would really win, they could EASILY have afforded to fight it in court. The only reason to settle in this manner is if they thought they would lose.

That's not true at all. They may have just decided that the expense, time, uncertainty of outcome were not worth the benefit that might have received even if they did win. They are just playing it safe, based on the terms of settlement (which I am not aware of, are you?), it wasn't worth the risk of fighting it in court. It shouldn't be construed as an admission of any wrongdoing.

bazzer

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#1330530 24-Jun-2015 11:42

Haha.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Nebbie

458 posts

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#1330533 24-Jun-2015 11:46

Its sad to see GM not that its going to stop the end user signing up for different services.

What sky is doing is trying to quite down the damage they created by over reacting to GM, the word is out NZ media content is limited and SkyTV is WAY over priced holding the monopoly, Looking at SkyTV's CEO's wages over the past 5 years shows he has doubled yet the service still remains the worst full off commercials.

Sadly in the end the Big bulles win, however it wont stop the people looking for the content in other ways. Maybe start torrenting again with the way the big guys are acting I think torrenting a TV Show that SkyTV has only exclusive rights to is now ethical.

Saying that DNS4ME is another service i'm sticking to now, until the bullies find new company's to bully.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Nebukadnessar

garvani

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#1330552 24-Jun-2015 11:53

ronw: Including in the bill is provision to outlaw VPN's to get around the restrictionjs but not sure how they will manage that

This never passed in the bill see here. Which is just as well because i move to Melbourne in 3 weeks and these draconian laws would have been an issue (not that i pirate content, im a reformed netflixer/hulu etc)

Jaxar

383 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1330566 24-Jun-2015 12:02

NonprayingMantis:
richms: It just annoys. It has not settled that there is nothing wrong with parallel importing digital content. So the idiots that call people netflix pirates will still go on about that.

we should take this as a very good outcome.

The fact that the settlement means Callplus are withdrawing global mode should tell you who was likely to win in court (i.e. not callplus). If callplus thought they would really win, they could EASILY have afforded to fight it in court. The only reason to settle in this manner is if they thought they would lose.

so the fact that it didn't get to court is a really good sign. If it did, and callplus lost (which seems very likely considering the setllement) then there could have been all sorts of legal ramifications for plenty of other services.

Respectfully I would have to question your assumption that the only reason they would settle in this manner is if they would loose this fight. I think you have made the assumption that just because they have the capital to fight this in court that fighting this would still be the best business decision. Remember these are companies with a responsibility to make their shareholders a profit not to act as moralistic crusaders. They would have had to ask themselves would the investment in money to win the battle actually result in good returns? If they do win then there is nothing to stop every other ISP to just match the service. Thus its not like it would give them a competitive advantage. Their competitive advantage has been in the other ISP's not wanting to get involved in a product which would one day be in contention with media companies.
Additionally many here have suggested that they don't see it as a deciding factor in their ISP selection as they use alternatives regardless of the availability of Global Mode.

It may well be they have backed down as they did not expect to win but it isn't the only reasonable explanation.

Please note: I have a professional bias towards Vodafone.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

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#1330571 24-Jun-2015 12:07

bazzer:
NonprayingMantis: The fact that the settlement means Callplus are withdrawing global mode should tell you who was likely to win in court (i.e. not callplus). If callplus thought they would really win, they could EASILY have afforded to fight it in court. The only reason to settle in this manner is if they thought they would lose.

That's not true at all. They may have just decided that the expense, time, uncertainty of outcome were not worth the benefit that might have received even if they did win. They are just playing it safe, based on the terms of settlement (which I am not aware of, are you?), it wasn't worth the risk of fighting it in court. It shouldn't be construed as an admission of any wrongdoing.

it's not an admission of guilt, but you can certainly read between the lines to see what has happened here. (as with any settlement where one party seems to have gotten exactly what they want and the other party hasn't)

Callplus do have pretty deep pockets, have fought much bigger and longer legal battles than this in court before (against Telecom no less!), and have been very public in their defence of global mode right up until now.

So lack of funds cannot possibly be the excuse.

The only reason for them to withdraw now, with this sort of settlement (i.e. remove the service totally, not allowed to comment at all about it - in other words, a total capitulation) would be because they thought their chances of winning were slim.

IMHO Callplus did global mode knowing it was a risky legal proposition (evidence for this: they launched it initially as a service under the radar for 'overseas visitors' with a nudge and a wink - if they thought it was totally legit, they wouldn't do that).

They hoped that NZ media companies would ignore it because of the PR backlash. Sky/Spark/TVNZ called their bluff, and they had to cave.

ronw

1222 posts

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#1330573 24-Jun-2015 12:09

You did not read your own url as it says that bill will pass. It actually passed on June 22 which was mentioned in my original message If you are going to Aussie you will not be able to watch your overseas stuff once it becomes law.

This never passed in the bill see here. Which is just as well because i move to Melbourne in 3 weeks and these draconian laws would have been an issue (not that i pirate content, im a reformed netflixer/hulu etc)

Nokia 7 Plus
Nexus 6P 32Gb
Nexus 6 Phone
Nexus 5 Phone
Nexus 7 2013 Tablet
Samsung TAB A 8"
Samsung TAB A 10"

& many Windows laptops, Desktops etc

bazzer

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#1330585 24-Jun-2015 12:14

NonprayingMantis:
bazzer:
NonprayingMantis: The fact that the settlement means Callplus are withdrawing global mode should tell you who was likely to win in court (i.e. not callplus). If callplus thought they would really win, they could EASILY have afforded to fight it in court. The only reason to settle in this manner is if they thought they would lose.

That's not true at all. They may have just decided that the expense, time, uncertainty of outcome were not worth the benefit that might have received even if they did win. They are just playing it safe, based on the terms of settlement (which I am not aware of, are you?), it wasn't worth the risk of fighting it in court. It shouldn't be construed as an admission of any wrongdoing.

it's not an admission of guilt, but you can certainly read between the lines to see what has happened here. (as with any settlement where one party seems to have gotten exactly what they want and the other party hasn't)

Callplus do have pretty deep pockets, have fought much bigger and longer legal battles than this in court before (against Telecom no less!), and have been very public in their defence of global mode right up until now.

So lack of funds cannot possibly be the excuse.

The only reason for them to withdraw now, with this sort of settlement (i.e. remove the service totally, not allowed to comment at all about it - in other words, a total capitulation) would be because they thought their chances of winning were slim.

IMHO Callplus did global mode knowing it was a risky legal proposition (evidence for this: they launched it initially as a service under the radar for 'overseas visitors' with a nudge and a wink - if they thought it was totally legit, they wouldn't do that).

They hoped that NZ media companies would ignore it because of the PR backlash. Sky/Spark/TVNZ called their bluff, and they had to cave.

Reiterating your point doesn't make it any more true. As above, they have simply decided it's in their best interest not to pursue the issue.

Say they use their deep pockets and win the case, then what? Does it really benefit them? Precedent set, now everyone does it.

Initially they decided it was worth the fight, and now they've changed their mind. There are no "between the lines" to read because, as the settlement is confidential, we can't even see the lines. What makes you think the settlement was just "Stop doing that", "OK"? Maybe it was, but I don't know that.

Lias

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#1330589 24-Jun-2015 12:15

We allow legal parallel importing of physical goods, legal circumvention of DVD zoning, or at least we will until the government sells out by signing TPPA. If Global Mode isn't legal, we need legislation to explicitly make it legal.

I don't see why we don't pass laws forbidding monopoly agreements, they NEVER benefit consumers, only ever some greedy company. No more "carrier exclusive" phones. No more Geoblocking. No more XYZ sport only on Sky. Oh what a beautiful pipe dream that will never happen because both the main political parties in NZ are willing to sign TPPA and sell us out.

/rant

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NonprayingMantis

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#1330595 24-Jun-2015 12:17

Jaxar:
NonprayingMantis:
richms: It just annoys. It has not settled that there is nothing wrong with parallel importing digital content. So the idiots that call people netflix pirates will still go on about that.

we should take this as a very good outcome.

The fact that the settlement means Callplus are withdrawing global mode should tell you who was likely to win in court (i.e. not callplus). If callplus thought they would really win, they could EASILY have afforded to fight it in court. The only reason to settle in this manner is if they thought they would lose.

so the fact that it didn't get to court is a really good sign. If it did, and callplus lost (which seems very likely considering the setllement) then there could have been all sorts of legal ramifications for plenty of other services.

Respectfully I would have to question your assumption that the only reason they would settle in this manner is if they would loose this fight. I think you have made the assumption that just because they have the capital to fight this in court that fighting this would still be the best business decision. Remember these are companies with a responsibility to make their shareholders a profit not to act as moralistic crusaders. They would have had to ask themselves would the investment in money to win the battle actually result in good returns? If they do win then there is nothing to stop every other ISP to just match the service. Thus its not like it would give them a competitive advantage. Their competitive advantage has been in the other ISP's not wanting to get involved in a product which would one day be in contention with media companies.
Additionally many here have suggested that they don't see it as a deciding factor in their ISP selection as they use alternatives regardless of the availability of Global Mode.

It may well be they have backed down as they did not expect to win but it isn't the only reasonable explanation.

whilst that may be true, I would say those factors would have been obvious from day 1 of the lawsuit. i.e. as soon as the court date was set, or even as soon as they got the C&D letter from the media companies.
If they didn't want to waste any more money and get the same outcome they could have backed down then.

Waiting this long suggests to me that they have received new legal opinion that tells them "sorry, you were wrong, you'll probably lose" and so made the (correct) decision to give in now before it was too late.

there is one other alternative I hadn't considered though:
Maybe the media companies offered a big chunk of cash to Callplus/BNSL as part of the settlement. Kind of a carrot/stick approach. "Remove Global mode and never talk about it again, we'll give you $20m (or some number, probably not that much). If you don't, we'll see you in court"

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