Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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2102 posts

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#1276624 3-Apr-2015 09:38

What people should be more aware of is TPP (Trans pacific partners agreement) and how that effects exactly what we are all doing now. As [sarcasim]upsetting, and morally awkward as it is[/sarcasim], streaming from overseas is the digital equivalent of parallel importing. By definition it is. Now thats been settled...

Under TPP

Some “circumventions” of technological-protection measures could become illegal

Thats where global mode comes in. To me global mode is the equivalent of a DVD player that can play in multiple regions. I have no doubt it is not illegal, and any court action would find the same. However add in TPP and something like global mode would be specifically targeted and made illegal.

There has been so much news and information about regional price gouging (Adobe in Australia), and my fears is TPP will make this worst.

EDIT: Added sarcasim for clarity :D

sbiddle

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#1276625 3-Apr-2015 09:41

itxtme: What people should be more aware of is TPP (Trans pacific partners agreement) and how that effects exactly what we are all doing now. As upsetting, and morally awkward as it is, streaming from overseas is the digital equivalent of parallel importing. By definition it is. Now thats been settled...

Under TPP

Some “circumventions” of technological-protection measures could become illegal

Thats where global mode comes in. To me global mode is the equivalent of a DVD player that can play in multiple regions. I have no doubt it is not illegal, and any court action would find the same. However add in TPP and something like global mode would be specifically targeted and made illegal.

There has been so much news and information about regional price gouging (Adobe in Australia), and my fears is TPP will make this worst.

TPP will also make parallel importing illegal.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#1276627 3-Apr-2015 09:45

macuser: So many dumb replies, from posters who are 'not a lawyer'

Parallel importing content is legal for consumers and has been for years.

CallPlus does not sell you the content, it just enables you to receive it (like a mail carrier).
CallPlus advertises this feature as it is valuable to customers, just like Youshop is advertised by NZ Post.

The consumer is breaking the terms and conditions of Netflix by using a DNS service to change the region of content it is viewing, which is not illegal, it just means the consumer is breaking terms and conditions and could be liable to have its service suspended, this has nothing to do with CallPlus - it is a relationship between Netflix and the consumer.

If you don't like that, then contact your local MP and suggest they change the law, just be prepared to lose the ability to import everything else you like because local dealers think that you're effecting their business.

Presumably you are a content and IP rights lawyer then?

Otherwise it would seem a bit hypocritical for you to denounce people on this site for making 'iANAL' posts before immediately doing the exact same thing yourself.

Simple fact is, this has never been tested in court.

Who knows, maybe spark want to sell global mode themselves but until they get a court decision confirming it is ok, they won't do it because of the legal risk.
If the courts confirm that it is totally fine, then spark could probably shut down lightbox tomorrow and keep the cost to minimum, and then launch global mode. Heck, if the courts say that breaching overseas ts and cs is totally fine, maybe spark could start scraping content from Netflix, HBO go, etc and bundle it all up in lightbox branding and sell that.

freitasm

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#1276633 3-Apr-2015 10:03

NonprayingMantis: If the courts confirm that it is totally fine, then spark could probably shut down lightbox tomorrow and keep the cost to minimum, and then launch global mode. Heck, if the courts say that breaching overseas ts and cs is totally fine, maybe spark could start scraping content from Netflix, HBO go, etc and bundle it all up in lightbox branding and sell that.

There is a distinction between accessing a product for personal consumption and accessing a product for resale/profit - what you are suggesting would make Spark a pirate company.

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1276635 3-Apr-2015 10:12

Tthey actually aren't. Netflix licences its content on a flat fee per region, so you subscribing to usa netflix gives the content creators nothing extra. It's just pure profit for netflix.

But Netflix use that money to pay the license holders. You are paying into a pool of money which is used in part to pay content creators.

DaveB

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#1276636 3-Apr-2015 10:17

itxtme: What people should be more aware of is TPP (Trans pacific partners agreement) and how that effects exactly what we are all doing now. As [sarcasim]upsetting, and morally awkward as it is[/sarcasim], streaming from overseas is the digital equivalent of parallel importing. By definition it is. Now thats been settled...

Under TPP

Some “circumventions” of technological-protection measures could become illegal

Thats where global mode comes in. To me global mode is the equivalent of a DVD player that can play in multiple regions. I have no doubt it is not illegal, and any court action would find the same. However add in TPP and something like global mode would be specifically targeted and made illegal.

There has been so much news and information about regional price gouging (Adobe in Australia), and my fears is TPP will make this worst.

EDIT: Added sarcasim for clarity :D

I agree. The TPP could potentially have a massive impact on many things that we take for granted. Regardless of NZ politics, Key is very much in the US pocket. This particular issue is but a mere hiccup compared to what is being leaked about these secret negotiations.

Rikkitic

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#1276641 3-Apr-2015 10:32

Reading through all this I am struck by a couple of thoughts. First, everyone keeps going on about Netflix or Hulu or other overseas streaming sites, as if they are somehow responsible for this situation. Of course they profit if overseas users subscribe to their service but I am fairly sure all of them are remaining within the terms of whatever license agreements they have with content providers. They may or may not be quietly pleased with their overseas customers, but I do not think they can be blamed for them.

The ones making all this possible are the proxy and VPN sites and that is where any blame or applause should be directed. It has nothing to do with the streaming sites themselves.

My other thought is that all of this, and much more, is directly due to the idiotic convoluted intellectual property laws foisted upon the rest of the world by the Americans. These kinds of arguments have been going on for years. I’m sure everyone remembers the black avatar campaign when the music industry was trying to ram through its self-serving legislation (and New Zealand broadcasters were slavishly parroting the music industry line).

Intellectual property and copyright is a greed-driven mess and that is why these kinds of issues keep cropping up. As an author, I fully agree that creative content of any kind should be protected and fairly compensated. I do not agree that royalties should be able to be collected across generations just because someone’s grandmother once churned out a ditty like ‘Happy Birthday’ in an idle moment. I do not agree that small businesses should have to perpetually cough up just because they are playing a radio on the premises. Royalty demands for quoting a line from a wire service like AP are ridiculous. My plumber doesn’t expect royalties for the toilet he installed. He was paid once, quite generously, and that was the end of the matter.

I think an enormous copyright protection/fee collection industry has grown up around so-called ‘intellectual property’ and I think it is corrupt and out of control. I also question how much of all those royalties collected actually ends up with the creative artists. If the mass of people have little respect for the concept of intellectual property, maybe that has something to do with the way it is being enforced. This issue is not going to go away, regardless of how many lawsuits are filed.

A final point: Most creative artists in all fields struggle for recognition and income. They are not well-off. Only a tiny fraction ever make it to the top but those who do, and who seem to complain loudest about intellectual property theft, do not exactly strike me as impoverished. Is there not something wrong with this picture?

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code15

198 posts

Master Geek

#1276649 3-Apr-2015 10:55

Not sure if this view has been mentioned yet:

So I had no moral issues with using UnoTelly to access US Netflix, and paying for a US account.

But.

I've just discovered how easy it is to use the Dynamo feature which gives you access to Netflix in every country - even though you're paying for one account (in my case, a US one).

This coupled with https://netflixaroundtheworld.com allows me to search whatever movie/tv series I want to watch and 9 times out of 10 some country's Netflix will have it.

To me, this is moving into a greyer area. My US subscription is my contribution towards content rights for tv/movies on netflix US, but with Dynamo I'm getting free access to tv/movies available only in Canada, Denmark, etc.

Of course Netflix knows this loophole exists.

DaveB

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#1276658 3-Apr-2015 11:16

code15: Not sure if this view has been mentioned yet:

My US subscription is my contribution towards content rights for tv/movies on netflix US, but with Dynamo I'm getting free access to tv/movies available only in Canada, Denmark, etc.

Of course the opposite could be true .......... your US subscription could be greatly devalued by reducing the content available to you if Sky have their way.

I think the problem here is that ISPs such as Orcon and Slingshot should have kept their geo-unblocking under the radar so to speak. They have invited the obvious response.

Dratsab

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#1276664 3-Apr-2015 11:28

Rikkitic: Reading through all this I am struck by a couple of thoughts. First, everyone keeps going on about Netflix or Hulu or other overseas streaming sites, as if they are somehow responsible for this situation. Of course they profit if overseas users subscribe to their service but I am fairly sure all of them are remaining within the terms of whatever license agreements they have with content providers. They may or may not be quietly pleased with their overseas customers, but I do not think they can be blamed for them.

The ones making all this possible are the proxy and VPN sites and that is where any blame or applause should be directed. It has nothing to do with the streaming sites themselves.

My other thought is that all of this, and much more, is directly due to the idiotic convoluted intellectual property laws foisted upon the rest of the world by the Americans. These kinds of arguments have been going on for years. I’m sure everyone remembers the black avatar campaign when the music industry was trying to ram through its self-serving legislation (and New Zealand broadcasters were slavishly parroting the music industry line).

Intellectual property and copyright is a greed-driven mess and that is why these kinds of issues keep cropping up. As an author, I fully agree that creative content of any kind should be protected and fairly compensated. I do not agree that royalties should be able to be collected across generations just because someone’s grandmother once churned out a ditty like ‘Happy Birthday’ in an idle moment. I do not agree that small businesses should have to perpetually cough up just because they are playing a radio on the premises. Royalty demands for quoting a line from a wire service like AP are ridiculous. My plumber doesn’t expect royalties for the toilet he installed. He was paid once, quite generously, and that was the end of the matter.

I think an enormous copyright protection/fee collection industry has grown up around so-called ‘intellectual property’ and I think it is corrupt and out of control. I also question how much of all those royalties collected actually ends up with the creative artists. If the mass of people have little respect for the concept of intellectual property, maybe that has something to do with the way it is being enforced. This issue is not going to go away, regardless of how many lawsuits are filed.

A final point: Most creative artists in all fields struggle for recognition and income. They are not well-off. Only a tiny fraction ever make it to the top but those who do, and who seem to complain loudest about intellectual property theft, do not exactly strike me as impoverished. Is there not something wrong with this picture?

Not quite everyone fits that mold.

code15

198 posts

Master Geek

#1276665 3-Apr-2015 11:35

If i want US Netflix, I should pay for a US Netflix subscription.

If i want NZ Netflix, i should pay for a NZ Netflix subscription.

If I want CA Netflix, I should pay for a CA Netflix subscription.

But currently, I pay one measly subscription fee, and get access to way more content than I should be able to.

To me that is bordering on VPN piracy, but its only possible because Netflix allow's one account to access all geographic locations.

But its stupid to say it's piracy to pay for a US Netflix subscription, and use a VPN to access US Netflix. Just like someone said earlier, its the digital version of importing DVDs from a different region.

D.W

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1276668 3-Apr-2015 11:40

code15: If i want US Netflix, I should pay for a US Netflix subscription.

If i want NZ Netflix, i should pay for a NZ Netflix subscription.

If I want CA Netflix, I should pay for a CA Netflix subscription.

But currently, I pay one measly subscription fee, and get access to way more content than I should be able to.

To me that is bordering on VPN piracy, but its only possible because Netflix allow's one account to access all geographic locations.

But its stupid to say it's piracy to pay for a US Netflix subscription, and use a VPN to access US Netflix. Just like someone said earlier, its the digital version of importing DVDs from a different region.

What do you call it if you travel the world using your NZ Netflix account?

code15

198 posts

Master Geek

#1276671 3-Apr-2015 11:57

D.W:
code15: If i want US Netflix, I should pay for a US Netflix subscription.

If i want NZ Netflix, i should pay for a NZ Netflix subscription.

If I want CA Netflix, I should pay for a CA Netflix subscription.

But currently, I pay one measly subscription fee, and get access to way more content than I should be able to.

To me that is bordering on VPN piracy, but its only possible because Netflix allow's one account to access all geographic locations.

But its stupid to say it's piracy to pay for a US Netflix subscription, and use a VPN to access US Netflix. Just like someone said earlier, its the digital version of importing DVDs from a different region.

What do you call it if you travel the world using your NZ Netflix account?

I think that's fine because you're just accessing the content designated for that country (I assume that what you mean). But you shouldn't be able to double dip when paying only one subscription.

I guess what I'm getting at is the ability to change countries multiple times every day to gain access to all Netflix content.

Rikkitic

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#1276675 3-Apr-2015 12:05

Dratsab:
Not quite everyone fits that mold.

Good on them. I'm glad there are some taking this approach. Things really do need to change.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Sidestep

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#1276705 3-Apr-2015 13:06

I'm sure an elephant in the room is GST (or lack of it).

At the moment if you do your own parallel importing, eg. buy your chromecast at Amazon – you can import it GST free.
If you buy at a parallel importer, eg. buy the chromecast at PBTech- you do pay GST.

I'm sure this imbalance - your $400 import duty/GST exemption - will disappear sometime in the future, becoming more like say, Canada, where with the addition of GST (on every purchase) & shipping, the US price advantage over buying locally is reduced.

Non NZ based streamed services must be more than just a copyright breach issue from the the Govt's point of view.

Being unable to tax the companies supplying our progamming will be more revenue slipping away.
If New Zealanders can only access a service specifically for our market the chances of being able to (somehow, in the future) tax it must increase.

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