What do you think of BigPipe

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#944287 2-Dec-2013 18:25

BigPipeNZ:

as of right now, we have no fair use policy.

Depending on how people behave, hopefully we won't need one. We know that some ISPs do have one (like Orcon and Flip) but others don't (like Slingshot), so we're pretty confident we can live without one too.

Orcon, Slingshot and Flip make heavy use of traffic management appliances with aggressive local caching. In Slingshot's case they cache torrents and other downloads. They also say in their terms they may contact heavy users so they do have a fair use policy effectively.

Disappointing to hear it's the the same naive/no plan approach as Go Large and Big Time.

I think you should have a clear plan for how you are going to handle the onslaught, real time activities should always be prioritised over bulk downloaders/leechers.

BigPipeNZ

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#944289 2-Dec-2013 18:26

DarkShadow:
BigPipeNZ:

lol, well considering we are already the cheapest ISP without any sort of data cap... (I think so anyway. Anybody know of a cheaper one?)

Trustpower's unlimited VDSL+phone is $104.21 or $99 if you sign up to their power as well.

phew! same price as us then, but with more requirements to get that price.

What do people think about trustpower as an ISP? I rarely see them mentioned here on geekzone.

bigpipe.co.nz
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Ragnor

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#944290 2-Dec-2013 18:29

BigPipeNZ:

What do people think about trustpower as an ISP? I rarely see them mentioned here on geekzone.

I believe it's a virtual ISP on Maxnet/Vocus platform/network so it's pretty good but probably has the same mid day slow downs you see on Maxnet's truenet results.

Behodar

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#944293 2-Dec-2013 18:49

Ragnor: I believe it's a virtual ISP on Maxnet/Vocus platform/network so it's pretty good but probably has the same mid day slow downs you see on Maxnet's truenet results.

Interesting; I didn't know that. Trustpower is currently the only UFB provider here in Whakatane and my street is supposed to be done "soonish". I was a bit worried about Trustpower's quality but I'm with Maxnet now so it probably won't be any worse - and I like my latency to the US as it is :)

DarkShadow

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#944305 2-Dec-2013 18:56

BigPipeNZ:
DarkShadow:
BigPipeNZ:

lol, well considering we are already the cheapest ISP without any sort of data cap... (I think so anyway. Anybody know of a cheaper one?)

Trustpower's unlimited VDSL+phone is $104.21 or $99 if you sign up to their power as well.

phew! same price as us then, but with more requirements to get that price.

What do people think about trustpower as an ISP? I rarely see them mentioned here on geekzone.

It's $89/93.68 for naked VDSL.

BigPipeNZ

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#944320 2-Dec-2013 19:14

Ragnor:
BigPipeNZ:

as of right now, we have no fair use policy.

Depending on how people behave, hopefully we won't need one. We know that some ISPs do have one (like Orcon and Flip) but others don't (like Slingshot), so we're pretty confident we can live without one too.

Orcon, Slingshot and Flip make heavy use of traffic management appliances with aggressive local caching. In Slingshot's case they cache torrents and other downloads. They also say in their terms they may contact heavy users so they do have a fair use policy effectively.

Disappointing to hear it's the the same naive/no plan approach as Go Large and Big Time.

I think you should have a clear plan for how you are going to handle the onslaught, real time activities should always be prioritised over bulk downloaders/leechers.

thanks for the feedback, and please don't think we are doing nothing about traffic. Local caching is totally part of the plan, for example.
It's a no brainer, making things cheaper for us on bandwidth, and better for customers.
Prioritisation of different kinds of traffic towards real time stuff like VOIP, streaming etc is something else we are also looking into.

Contacting heavy users is something I already mentioned before (i.e. people who are impacting the network - and they are not necessarily high downloaders) as something we might have to implement later, if necessary. I'm hoping we won't need to.

But the specific question I was answering in the above post before was about a 'Fair Use' Policy, and that is somewhat different. IMHO a fair use policy goes totally against the concept of having no data cap (or 'unlimited data').

I really hope we don't need one, and that's what we hope to find out with the trial.
If needed, we can bring one in for launch or later, but it will leave a bitter taste in my mouth as something that flies against the idea of a plan with no data cap.

Remember also that this is a small scale trial right now.
We are limiting it to a relatively small number of customers to find things out. For that purpose, it's just a lot easier to say to our triallists "go nuts" than it is to implement various traffic shaping measures etc

I don't really want to get into a debate about Go Large and Big Time. Neither of those had anything to do with me, or anybody working on BigPipe, and I don't know much about the internal workings of Telecom way back then.
From what I understand a lot of the problems back then were actually regulatory, and also from advertising something as unlimited when there actually was a fair use policy and traffic shaping.

bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

BigPipeNZ

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#944322 2-Dec-2013 19:20

DarkShadow:
BigPipeNZ:
DarkShadow:
BigPipeNZ:

lol, well considering we are already the cheapest ISP without any sort of data cap... (I think so anyway. Anybody know of a cheaper one?)

Trustpower's unlimited VDSL+phone is $104.21 or $99 if you sign up to their power as well.

phew! same price as us then, but with more requirements to get that price.

What do people think about trustpower as an ISP? I rarely see them mentioned here on geekzone.

It's $89/93.68 for naked VDSL.

bugger :D

We'll see how the trial goes and review pricing at that point. See if I can squeeze the bean counters a bit more.

bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

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coffeebaron

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#944330 2-Dec-2013 19:43

BigPipeNZ:
graemeh:
BigPipeNZ: For the purposes of the trial (which is limited numbers) we are covering all mandatory installation costs, but we are only serving customers who have an existing broadband connection and will be switching ISPs (so, for example, we won't be allowing a new build with a fresh connection onto our trial, or installations of second lines).

Will you be supporting customers who want to move from ADSL to VDSL as part of your trial?

Yes, but bear in mind that special VDSL wiring is not a Chorus requirement so we won't be providing that for free as a default.

A couple of things to consider:

We do recommend you getting a VDSL splitter installed to get the best from your VDSL connection, if you don't already have one, but you don't absolutely need one, and we won't force you to use Chorus to do it.

Coffeebaron on geekzone (or other people like him) can install a VDSL filter for you and that will be cheaper than Chorus I believe anyway.

Given this will be Naked broadband, there won't be any landlines interfering, sky boxes, monitored alarms etc that normally stuff up the VDSL so whilst having a filter will be better, it's not absolutely necessary.

Having said all that, if you find you get VDSL without the filter and the speed absolutely sucks, then we can work something out I'm sure for the trial.

Wiring stubs are a big killer for VDSL. So whether or not the is a master filter for naked VDSL is a mute point. What is important is a single dedicated feed to the VDSL jack-point separated out from any other internal wiring. The work is pretty much the same as doing a full master filter install; so also whether or not spending an extra minute and a few $$ on a part (that I get a very good price on), it's pretty much a no brainer to just fit the filter. Means easy to go back to POTS if you want to. Also a good peace of mind saying that yes there is a master filter installed should a fault be logged.

To give you an idea how wiring on naked VDSL can affect performance. I recently disconnected a secondary jack-point for someone on naked VDSL and sync increase by 10Mbps. And that was very new, excellent condition wiring too!

Rural IT and Broadband support.

Broadband troubleshooting and master filter installs.
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Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

1080p

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#944391 2-Dec-2013 21:23

BigPipe sounds like the ISP I have been dreaming about!

Policy on the DIA filter? If you don't sign up to it on principle then I may just have to register right now. :)

mysticnz

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#944416 2-Dec-2013 22:09

Put my name down for the trial, currently looking at VDSL providers and was going to hit up snap. Lucky I came across this thread!

Looking forward to hearing from you guys soon! :)

BigPipeNZ

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#944812 3-Dec-2013 15:30

1080p: BigPipe sounds like the ISP I have been dreaming about!

Policy on the DIA filter? If you don't sign up to it on principle then I may just have to register right now. :)

Hi,

Haven't determined our policy on this one yet.

As of right now, we aren't implementing it, but we haven't had the debate internally yet as to the pros vs cons.

What do other people in geekzone think about it?

bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

DarkShadow

1647 posts

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#944826 3-Dec-2013 15:54

BigPipeNZ:
1080p: BigPipe sounds like the ISP I have been dreaming about!

Policy on the DIA filter? If you don't sign up to it on principle then I may just have to register right now. :)

Hi,

Haven't determined our policy on this one yet.

As of right now, we aren't implementing it, but we haven't had the debate internally yet as to the pros vs cons.

What do other people in geekzone think about it?

Considering it's only effective against http, I'd rather you guys not waste resources on it.

Lorenceo

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#944837 3-Dec-2013 16:15

What will you be doing for peering arrangements?

As for the lack of IPv4 addresses: get native IPv6 working as soon as possible, and make it available by default to all customers. Whether they have CPE that support it or not could be left up to them.
Run dual stack to ensure v4 connections will still work. When you run out of v4 addresses start doing CGNAT for v4?
Or as someone else suggested, run CGNAT by default, and allow customers to opt in to having a public v4 address?

Obviously running NAT at all isn't ideal, but if you have more customers than IP addresses you're in between a rock and a hard place.

trig42

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#944855 3-Dec-2013 16:29

I think it is a great idea, more proof to me that Telecom (BigPipe is a Telecom Subsidiary isn't it?) is thinking outside the square without cannibalizing it's core product.

If I could get VDSL (only just too far away from exchange), I'd be pretty keen, but at the moment I'm actually quite happy with Telecom - I like the one bill for wife's mobile, phone and net.

I wish BigPipe all the best, hopefully a few leachers don't ruin it for everyone else.

BigPipeNZ

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BigPipe

#944856 3-Dec-2013 16:30

Lorenceo: What will you be doing for peering arrangements?

As for the lack of IPv4 addresses: get native IPv6 working as soon as possible, and make it available by default to all customers. Whether they have CPE that support it or not could be left up to them.
Run dual stack to ensure v4 connections will still work. When you run out of v4 addresses start doing CGNAT for v4?
Or as someone else suggested, run CGNAT by default, and allow customers to opt in to having a public v4 address?

Obviously running NAT at all isn't ideal, but if you have more customers than IP addresses you're in between a rock and a hard place.

Cheers, IPv6 isn't just about customer CPE, it's also about some applications (like Skype) simply not working with IPv6

I like the idea of running CGNAT by default but having a very simple opt-in toggle for fixed IP address. Seems to be a potential solution.

Keep the ideas coming through.... :D

bigpipe.co.nz
https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ
https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

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