Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care.

Forums › Health and fitness › Enduring power of attorney (EPA), Heath and care.

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#2001718 24-Apr-2018 15:43

Coil:

Thank you @mdf, Really appreciate your response. I think I need a will to be written up.

Consider an EPA as well.

Death is one thing, we all owe one of those. Being kept alive in a persistent vegetative state is another prospect altogether.

Mike

jonherries

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#2002034 25-Apr-2018 07:07

This might be useful, is a broader approach than an EPOA - helps you consider a broader range of situations. Has been around for a while now. The document is hopefully going to be added to the Manage My Health portal soon:

http://www.advancecareplanning.org.nz

Jon

alasta

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#2002160 25-Apr-2018 11:54

I have no spouse or kids, and too old for either in the future, but I would quite like to nominate some charities to receive my assets rather than letting the government get hold of it.

I was thinking of using this tool, but it would be difficult to get two witnesses who are not beneficiaries of the will to both simultaneously watch me sign it. I think this rules out the possibility of just getting a JP to witness it.

Maybe it would be easier to just get my lawyer to deal with it next time I see him.

ObidiahSlope

260 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2002341 25-Apr-2018 15:24

Justices of the Peace often hold document signing sessions where they will witness signing documents free of charge.

http://justiceofthepeace.org.nz/Find+a+JP/Justice+of+the+Peace+Service+Desks.html

Obsequious hypocrite

FineWine

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#2002384 25-Apr-2018 15:52

Just gone through all this with my step-mother who has gone from a fully independent woman of 94 to a secure dementia unit all in a year. But she had the forethought to set up in 2002 both EPOA's - Property & Finances and Health & Welfare. Then half way through last year when she realised that she was starting to become dodally she gave authority for myself to manage her bank accounts and investments and at the same time with the Doctor she set up a 'Not for Resus' order. When she was certified nuts a month ago with full blown Vascular Dementia both EPOA's fully kicked in with the lawyer as controller. He is however OK that we carry on managing her finances and health and welfare. The rest of both sides of the family (5) are all OK with this as well.

I guess I am lucky that she choose a good lawyer and I have an understanding non squabbling family. But boy do I keep paper trails. The lawyer said he charges $360 per hour basic so this is the best way to handle things and he just needs to signs off on the big things.

But just remember each and every bodies situation is different.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

mdf

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#2002395 25-Apr-2018 16:27

@alasta I'm not aware of lawyers doing basic will for free, but they will certainly witness documents for free. If you wander in to the reception of any law firm and say you have documents that need witnessing, they will whistle up a junior/law clerk pretty quickly. If you just want workmates/friends to do it, they don't need to read the will itself (if that is of concern), just certify that they watched you sign it.

mspec: I will be getting a lawyer to do both the (EPA) and update our will as I want it locked down tight with no re course available.

There is unfortunately almost nothing in the world that is 100% complaint- / double guessing- / lawyer- proof. Google "right to die" and you will be presented with a cast of hundreds of heartbreaking cases to choose from. Terri Schiavo's case took something like 10 years of arguing between husband and parents, churches, America at large and even South Park. This guy had "do not resuscitate" tattooed across his chest and even that prompted some debate. Also witness the ongoing debate about organ donation and whether or not the opt in on your drivers licence should be conclusive.

So in addition to sorting out the legal side of things, you also should consider having a discussion with your family and friends about your wishes, and respecting those wishes. It will probably be enough of a shock to find out a loved one is in a coma; they don't need the double whammy of also finding out that someone has been authorised to turn off life support too. Another possibility if that is too confronting is to write a letter to go with your will / EPA explaining some of the decisions you have made. A letter isn't intended to be legally binding or anything, but hopefully makes it less likely that someone would ever seek to challenge the decisions made.

alasta

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#2002462 25-Apr-2018 18:39

mdf:

@alasta I'm not aware of lawyers doing basic will for free, but they will certainly witness documents for free. If you wander in to the reception of any law firm and say you have documents that need witnessing, they will whistle up a junior/law clerk pretty quickly. If you just want workmates/friends to do it, they don't need to read the will itself (if that is of concern), just certify that they watched you sign it.

That is really helpful advice. Thanks!

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lapimate

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#2002508 25-Apr-2018 20:49

FineWine: ... both EPOA's fully kicked in with the lawyer as controller. He is however OK that we carry on managing her finances and health and welfare. ...

I thought lawyers were very reluctant to be Welfare EPOA nominee? Not so?

kryptonjohn

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#2002515 25-Apr-2018 21:00

jonathan18: “Free” wills from firms tend to come with such fishhooks as them taking a substantial cut at the point of the will being executed - this was the model of the Public Trust for example (may still be?).

If your solicitor wants to charge you to write out a basic will then get another solicitor. It's a tradition and some newbie shyster ones might not do this. Mine was happy to do so - it was a very simple document.

NB: The Public Trust is not your solicitor.

chatterbox

204 posts

Master Geek

#2004841 30-Apr-2018 08:47

Will: activated upon death

EPOA: activated after a doctor signs off you are and never will be mentally capable of making your own decisions again for health, property etc. Papers aren't active until this is done. Dementia is a good example when you are way down the track. They will never sign off while you still appear to have some capabilities.

Resuscitation: Level of care guided by doctor with patient and family wishes taken into consideration. Decisions are made based around reversibility of the condition at the time and likely quality of life (or lack of) thereafter. Common misconception resuscitation = treatment. You can still be treated, but not considered appropriate for CPR.

Best thing you can do is talk to family or friends to let your wishes be known so they feel comfortable knowing they're doing what YOU want when the time comes and they won't feel guilty agreeing to turn life support off because you've trained them so well. The nightmare begins when there is family conflict.

Your lawyer may ask about your wishes to receive antibiotics, blood transfusions, feeding tubes, organ donation, CPR etc. In certain situations they are appropriate and in others they are not. So mostly the answer is it depends and your answer today for some hypothetical situation may not be the situation you end up in later so the answer is likely to change. My lawyer pressed me for it so I gave answers anyway.

Will: Needs to be done otherwise over a certain amount of assets it will go to the court and be a hassle.

EPOA: It's most important for when you're still alive but lack decision making capabilities.

Unfortunately due to life circumstances I am more familiar with this stuff than I would like to be. I need to update my own EPOA as 2 have passed already among other reasons.

Never say never

jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2004858 30-Apr-2018 09:25

chatterbox:

Will: activated upon death

EPOA: activated after a doctor signs off you are and never will be mentally capable of making your own decisions again for health, property etc. Papers aren't active until this is done. Dementia is a good example when you are way down the track. They will never sign off while you still appear to have some capabilities.

Resuscitation: Level of care guided by doctor with patient and family wishes taken into consideration. Decisions are made based around reversibility of the condition at the time and likely quality of life (or lack of) thereafter. Common misconception resuscitation = treatment. You can still be treated, but not considered appropriate for CPR.

Best thing you can do is talk to family or friends to let your wishes be known so they feel comfortable knowing they're doing what YOU want when the time comes and they won't feel guilty agreeing to turn life support off because you've trained them so well. The nightmare begins when there is family conflict.

Your lawyer may ask about your wishes to receive antibiotics, blood transfusions, feeding tubes, organ donation, CPR etc. In certain situations they are appropriate and in others they are not. So mostly the answer is it depends and your answer today for some hypothetical situation may not be the situation you end up in later so the answer is likely to change. My lawyer pressed me for it so I gave answers anyway.

Will: Needs to be done otherwise over a certain amount of assets it will go to the court and be a hassle.

EPOA: It's most important for when you're still alive but lack decision making capabilities.

Unfortunately due to life circumstances I am more familiar with this stuff than I would like to be. I need to update my own EPOA as 2 have passed already among other reasons.

EPOA doesn't require a doctor to activate it, it can be activated when you want it activated

FineWine

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#2004887 30-Apr-2018 09:57

lapimate:
FineWine: ... both EPOA's fully kicked in with the lawyer as controller. He is however OK that we carry on managing her finances and health and welfare. ...
I thought lawyers were very reluctant to be Welfare EPOA nominee? Not so?

Apparently my step mums one isn't. He told us a story where he was about to go into watch a stage show while on holiday in Melbounre when a family and doctors rang him from NZ asking permission to operate on their incapacitated mother for appendix.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

chatterbox

204 posts

Master Geek

#2005047 30-Apr-2018 12:06

jfanning:

chatterbox:

Will: activated upon death

EPOA: activated after a doctor signs off you are and never will be mentally capable of making your own decisions again for health, property etc. Papers aren't active until this is done. Dementia is a good example when you are way down the track. They will never sign off while you still appear to have some capabilities.

Resuscitation: Level of care guided by doctor with patient and family wishes taken into consideration. Decisions are made based around reversibility of the condition at the time and likely quality of life (or lack of) thereafter. Common misconception resuscitation = treatment. You can still be treated, but not considered appropriate for CPR.

Best thing you can do is talk to family or friends to let your wishes be known so they feel comfortable knowing they're doing what YOU want when the time comes and they won't feel guilty agreeing to turn life support off because you've trained them so well. The nightmare begins when there is family conflict.

Your lawyer may ask about your wishes to receive antibiotics, blood transfusions, feeding tubes, organ donation, CPR etc. In certain situations they are appropriate and in others they are not. So mostly the answer is it depends and your answer today for some hypothetical situation may not be the situation you end up in later so the answer is likely to change. My lawyer pressed me for it so I gave answers anyway.

Will: Needs to be done otherwise over a certain amount of assets it will go to the court and be a hassle.

EPOA: It's most important for when you're still alive but lack decision making capabilities.

Unfortunately due to life circumstances I am more familiar with this stuff than I would like to be. I need to update my own EPOA as 2 have passed already among other reasons.

EPOA doesn't require a doctor to activate it, it can be activated when you want it activated

Just read that. Family court activation doesn't appeal either.

I don't understand the value in paying to draw up EPOA papers only to hand over the reigns when you want?

Never say never

jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2005059 30-Apr-2018 12:17

chatterbox:

jfanning:

EPOA doesn't require a doctor to activate it, it can be activated when you want it activated

Just read that. Family court activation doesn't appeal either.

I don't understand the value in paying to draw up EPOA papers only to hand over the reigns when you want?

There can be cases where it is handy, as it covers not just health. So if one person is in a rest home, the person agent named in the epoa can do things for them.

chatterbox

204 posts

Master Geek

#2005387 30-Apr-2018 18:45

jfanning:

chatterbox:

jfanning:

EPOA doesn't require a doctor to activate it, it can be activated when you want it activated

Just read that. Family court activation doesn't appeal either.

I don't understand the value in paying to draw up EPOA papers only to hand over the reigns when you want?

There can be cases where it is handy, as it covers not just health. So if one person is in a rest home, the person agent named in the epoa can do things for them.

I guess that could be an option for the right people.

You don't actually need EPOAs for health. Health prof will call family / delegated person regarding wishes. Banks will sign on delegated person in presence of account holder. Even link accounts to your own login so you can see the other persons account and move money around as needed. Real estate agent will bring papers to rest home to sign if selling property and you can delegate person to run the show. Delegated person can be added to accounts over the phone and many tasks can be completed online these days. If you're a little bit forward planning and don't have a complicated family / social environment then you may not even need EPOAs.

EPOAs are great for disagreements though and save the hassle of going through the legal system.

Never say never

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