2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2473356 29-Apr-2020 13:59

Ge0rge:

While I agree that people should be held to account, and feel that has been done extremely poorly throughout both L4 and by the looks will be in L3 - the Police have absolutely dropped the ball here - I disagree the that we should close, and bankrupt if need be, businesses.

You will find plenty of examples throughout this thread and the shopping one of people not paying attention to or obeying the law. Closer than 2m in the supermarket - well obviously that's the supermarket's fault, shut them down and bankrupt them. Yes, you're going to tell me they are essential blah blah and I agree - however, just because a place is open, does not mean that I need to go in there, particularly if there are already people inside.

Until the Police, or some other entity with the authority to, start to actually enforce the laws that the governmemt keeps spouting, you can expect this to keep happening. It's not a business's fault entirely, and laying the blame squarely at their feet negates the culpability of the retards who can't stop for a second and wait in their car for their turn.

I disagree entirely. The existing (i.e. pre-COVID) framework for health and safety law has made it abundantly clear that the primary duty on ensuring that their operations are without health and safety risk to other people to the extent practicable is on individual PCBUs. They knowingly took a risk and did nothing to control the crowds. There has also been reports that people were congregating because they needed to be close to the shop to hear their names being called out -- that's on the operator.

This is not the same thing as inadvertent and occasional breaches of social distancing at supermarkets. I am the primary shopper for our household and I've never seen any kind of crowding of that extent and nature at my local supermarket. And don't forget this: the supermarkets initially had to operate during an extremely uncertain time, whereas these muppets have had plenty of time to prepare.

The time for sympathy and whataboutism is over: screw them. The majority's welfare is what matters. The best way to protect everyone is for irresponsible businesses like Burger Fuel Glenfield to disappear, along with all the muppets crowding around to be levied massive and on-the-spot fines.

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#2473357 29-Apr-2020 14:01

Rikkitic:

freitasm:

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.

Good luck. I hope the wait isn't too anxious. When do you get the result?

There was no wait. Called this morning, booked for 30 minutes later, drove through the tent (got there a few minutes earlier) and out. Was back home in no time. Now waiting for the results - SMS or phone call.

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Ge0rge

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#2473366 29-Apr-2020 14:32

Apparently you don't disagree entirely. The crux of my post is that the authoritys are not effectively or actively discouraging, through punitive means or otherwise, any group congregations across NZ. They say they are, but they simply aren't. Closing Burger Fuel, or (insert any other business here) will not stop these chuckleheads from doing what they are doing - breaking the law.

You said it yourself in your last line. Until this happens, these people will continue to behave like idiots - and they don't need a business to do it - parks, surfing, fishing - there have been reports of people throughout L4 breaking the law with all but impunity.

dejadeadnz

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#2473370 29-Apr-2020 14:41

Ge0rge: Apparently you don't disagree entirely. The crux of my post is that the authoritys are not effectively or actively discouraging, through punitive means or otherwise, any group congregations across NZ. They say they are, but they simply aren't. Closing Burger Fuel, or (insert any other business here) will not stop these chuckleheads from doing what they are doing - breaking the law.

You said it yourself in your last line. Until this happens, these people will continue to behave like idiots - and they don't need a business to do it - parks, surfing, fishing - there have been reports of people throughout L4 breaking the law with all but impunity.

I disagree entirely with your point that these businesses should not be bankrupted and made to suffer. It's not a binary position: the police can do better, individual chukleheads can be prosecuted, and businesses like Burger Fuel Glenfield can be shuttered together. Individuals behaving like chuckleheads have a much lower potential impact than the scenes that everyone has seen with their own eyes. Look, if you want to spend your time getting teary eyed for that operator, you do you. Just don't act like they are victims or they don't deserve all the opprobrium.

Oblivian

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#2473373 29-Apr-2020 14:43

mattwnz:
Oblivian:

Combined duo again for 1PM .

The combined press conference format ended two days ago. They now hold separate ones.

And yet here they were. And explaining it wasn't working split

I check the moh page daily. They tell you the format. I didn't just guess.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-novel-coronavirus-news-and-media-updates

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#2473375 29-Apr-2020 14:55

There's no excuses. Burger Fuel people know exactly what we have been doing or the last four weeks. There should be no warning - go straight to the "let's close this non-compliant business" stage.

Five million people can do it for four weeks and a bunch of dickheads can't?

Close them until they learn.

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#2473376 29-Apr-2020 14:57

and yet we had zero confirmed cases in the community today, the one confirmed was an overseas traveller returning now in Quarantine. Don't panic yet.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

freitasm

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#2473377 29-Apr-2020 14:59

vexxxboy:

and yet we had zero confirmed cases in the community today, the one confirmed was an overseas traveller returning now in Quarantine. Don't panic yet.

Would you be expecting a CT case one day after some relaxed rules? You know why we are in Level 3 and not straight into Leve 1, right?

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Oblivian

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#2473378 29-Apr-2020 15:01

Has gone out on socials

Our staff are doing their very best to get your meal to you on time and in the safest way possible, all while operating under strict new procedures to ensure your wellbeing and their own. These new procedures, combined with a super high volume of orders, will undoubtedly slow down the kitchen and impact on your order timing. We ask if you could please be understanding if there is a delay with your order this week.

Here are a few ways you can help us:

Physical Distancing: Unfortunately, we can only allow for physical distancing guidance in the immediate area outside of a store. We need your help here. Please use your best judgement and follow the 2m rule if a queue forms. We will have staff stationed at the store front to call out your order, so please try to form an orderly queue and wait for your name to be called.

vexxxboy

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#2473380 29-Apr-2020 15:04

freitasm:

vexxxboy:

and yet we had zero confirmed cases in the community today, the one confirmed was an overseas traveller returning now in Quarantine. Don't panic yet.

Would you be expecting a CT case one day after some relaxed rules? You know why we are in Level 3 and not straight into Leve 1, right?

yes and there would be no way we would be in level 3 if the risk was that great .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

frankv

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#2473406 29-Apr-2020 15:17

dejadeadnz:

It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be.

So, all the Burger Fuel franchisees who have completely complied with the law should be put out of business? Get a grip! That's not holding people to account, it's punishing the innocent as well as the guilty. Making a whole lot of lawful, effective, high-cashflow businesses bankrupt won't help the economy either.

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dejadeadnz

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#2473408 29-Apr-2020 15:29

Oblivian: Has gone out on socials

Our staff are doing their very best to get your meal to you on time and in the safest way possible, all while operating under strict new procedures to ensure your wellbeing and their own. These new procedures, combined with a super high volume of orders, will undoubtedly slow down the kitchen and impact on your order timing. We ask if you could please be understanding if there is a delay with your order this week.

Here are a few ways you can help us:

Physical Distancing: Unfortunately, we can only allow for physical distancing guidance in the immediate area outside of a store. We need your help here. Please use your best judgement and follow the 2m rule if a queue forms. We will have staff stationed at the store front to call out your order, so please try to form an orderly queue and wait for your name to be called.

They still don't get it and some of the underlying and wrong-headed assumptions are appalling. The team that I lead at a lifeline utility has a role in, amongst other things, testing out operational controls to ensure that they work in mitigating or controlling risks. The risk here is uncontrolled congregation of people due to their operation. It's not acceptable legally under the Health and Safety at Work Act to just hope that people will following social distancing rules. Have they done their utmost to stop queues forming in the first place? That should be the priority. Discouraging/disbursing the crowd should be one step down from the list of controls because, to some extent, by the time people start congregating the risk has materialised, as may the potential consequences.

One simple way of stopping crowds is to set up a system where people got auto-responses to go to a place near but well away from the store before appointed pick up time immediately following their order. When X's order is ready, have a system set up where X's phone is rung and you maker it crystal clear in the online order Ts&Cs that orders will not be held for longer than 5 or 10 minutes after you are called, in order to prevent order collection area from being bogged down. There are all sorts of ways that you can do it -- the point is that they can't just socialise their operational risks, expect people to control themselves, and hope for the best.

They have the most influence upon people's behaviour in collecting their orders. They should be the ones doing most of the work, instead of the current attitude of just shrugging their shoulders.

MikeB4

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#2473409 29-Apr-2020 15:29

frankv:

dejadeadnz:

It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be.

So, all the Burger Fuel franchisees who have completely complied with the law should be put out of business? Get a grip! That's not holding people to account, it's punishing the innocent as well as the guilty. Making a whole lot of lawful, effective, high-cashflow businesses bankrupt won't help the economy either.

Yet "Failing to make sure its customers maintained social distancing meant BurgerFuel failed to fulfil its obligations, the prime minister says. She said officials had been in contact with the company as on Tuesday night, as it "certainly" hadn't fulfilled its social distancing obligations."

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

frankv

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#2473412 29-Apr-2020 15:35

dejadeadnz:

They knowingly took a risk and did nothing to control the crowds. There has also been reports that people were congregating because they needed to be close to the shop to hear their names being called out -- that's on the operator.

IANAL, but what power does a business have over people on the public street outside their shop? Surely a shopkeeper can't force someone to do anything, except on their own property? So, between the footpath and the counter, they can enforce 2m separation. But on the public footpath all they can do is to ask, I guess? (Do we know that they didn't ask? Do we know that they did nothing to control the crowds?) And, if that doesn't work, then I guess they need to call the police. Who did call the police?

It seems to me to be grossly unfair to hold someone responsible for something over which they have no control.

MikeB4

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#2473413 29-Apr-2020 15:36

If things do not calm down at take away outlets urgently I feel the MOD DG should issue a new directive for them to close doors for anything other than contactless delivery.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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