2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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398 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2513954 28-Jun-2020 15:32

Just saw an example today of what made me so angry

In the local service station a lady in her 50s or 60s was telling employees that she would not be back for a coffee for three months- she was off to USA for a holiday on the following day as they had some great deals at present (this despite her friends advice). And that she supposed she would have to quarantine on her return. How selfish.

Quarantine should be somewhere else than good hotels for those who put themselves at extreme risk for just a holiday.

Does anyone know of any travel advisories that limit NZ obligations to those who ignore pandemic risk ?

Oblivian

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#2513957 28-Jun-2020 15:42

Reanalyse:

Just saw an example today of what made me so angry

In the local service station a lady in her 50s or 60s was telling employees that she would not be back for a coffee for three months- she was off to USA for a holiday on the following day as they had some great deals at present (this despite her friends advice). And that she supposed she would have to quarantine on her return. How selfish.

Quarantine should be somewhere else than good hotels for those who put themselves at extreme risk for just a holiday.

Does anyone know of any travel advisories that limit NZ obligations to those who ignore pandemic risk ?

You mean like this

https://safetravel.govt.nz/covid-19-coronavirus#overlay-context=covid-19-coronavirus

gzt

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#2513958 28-Jun-2020 15:44

It's a massive risk to take. I'd be surprised if it's covered by travel insurance at this point.

cshwone

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#2513959 28-Jun-2020 15:44

Oblivian:

Reanalyse:

Just saw an example today of what made me so angry

In the local service station a lady in her 50s or 60s was telling employees that she would not be back for a coffee for three months- she was off to USA for a holiday on the following day as they had some great deals at present (this despite her friends advice). And that she supposed she would have to quarantine on her return. How selfish.

Quarantine should be somewhere else than good hotels for those who put themselves at extreme risk for just a holiday.

Does anyone know of any travel advisories that limit NZ obligations to those who ignore pandemic risk ?

You mean like this

https://safetravel.govt.nz/covid-19-coronavirus#overlay-context=covid-19-coronavirus

And I doubt she has any valid Travel Insurance. And we all know about healthcare in the US.

mattwnz

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#2513960 28-Jun-2020 15:47

This is why people should be required to pay for their managed isolation. There should however be some exceptions depending on circumstances. A holiday, hell no.

Also fining airlines for bringing in covid cases IMO is something we need to do. It would then make them more risk adverse, and may require them to make sure their passengers self isolate prior to traveling, and also be tested. For example, in Australia, they are now not allowing people from certain areas which are covid hot spots, to do certain things. eg Go to a sports event.

mattwnz

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#2514008 28-Jun-2020 15:52

Another concerning article about our managed isolation systems at the border

Covid-19: NZ's managed isolation system not broken, but under 'extreme stress' - review

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420020/covid-19-nz-s-managed-isolation-system-not-broken-but-under-extreme-stress-review

I think the problem is that we are now allowing too many to return at once, and also from countries where the cases are totally out of control. No precautions appear to be getting taken to reduce the risk of people from these countries having covid, such as pre isolation and pre testing prior to flying. I think this could come back to bite us badly. China claim that their new cases that are now in the community have come from overseas, and I would have thought they were super-strict at the borders with their quarantines, and they seem to wear full hazmat suits.

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kingdragonfly

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#2514014 28-Jun-2020 16:16

New York Times: America Didn’t Give Up on Covid-19. Republicans Did.

Partisanship has crippled our response.

By Paul Krugman

Earlier this year much of America went through hell as the nation struggled to deal with Covid-19. More than 120,000 Americans have now died; more than 20 million have lost their jobs.

But it’s looking as if all those sacrifices were in vain. We never really got the coronavirus under control, and now infections, while they have fallen to a quite low level in the New York area, the pandemic’s original epicenter, are surging in much of the rest of the country.

And the bad news isn’t just a result of more testing. In new hot spots like Arizona — where testing capacity is being overwhelmed — and Houston the fraction of tests coming up positive is soaring, which shows that the disease is spreading rapidly.

It didn’t have to be this way. The European Union, a hugely diverse area with a larger population than the U.S., has been far more successful at limiting the spread of Covid-19 than we have. What went wrong?

The immediate answer is that many U.S. states ignored warnings from health experts and rushed to reopen their economies, and far too many people failed to follow basic precautions like wearing face masks and avoiding large groups. But why was there so much foolishness?

Well, I keep seeing statements to the effect that Americans were too impatient to stay the course, too unwilling to act responsibly. But this is deeply misleading, because it avoids confronting the essence of the problem. Americans didn’t fail the Covid-19 test; Republicans did.

After all, the Northeast, with its largely Democratic governors, has been appropriately cautious about reopening, and its numbers look like Europe’s. California and Washington are blue states that are seeing a rise in cases, but it’s from a relatively low base, and their Democratic governors are taking actions like requiring the use of face masks and seem ready to reverse their reopening.

So the really bad news is coming from Republican-controlled states, especially Arizona, Florida and Texas, which rushed to reopen and, while some are now pausing, haven’t reversed course. If the Northeast looks like Europe, the South is starting to look like Brazil.

Nor is it just Republican governors and state legislatures. According to the new New York Times/Siena poll, voters over all strongly favor giving control of the pandemic priority over reopening the economy — but Republican voters, presumably taking their cue from the White House and Fox News, take the opposite position.
...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/opinion/coronavirus-republicans.html

kingdragonfly

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#2514060 28-Jun-2020 16:46

Arizona City Councilman Says 'I Can't Breathe' in Anti-Mask Protest

Bloomberg QuickTake News

Jim Lane, the mayor of Scottsdale, Arizona, is denouncing city councilman Guy Phillips for using the phrase "I can't breathe" during an anti-mask protest.

Arizona reported its largest increase in Covid-19 hospitalizations on Wednesday, to 2,270. Ventilator usage also reached the highest since the pandemic began.

Rikkitic

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#2514064 28-Jun-2020 16:58

Republicans may not have bigger dicks than Democrats, but they definitely are bigger dicks than Democrats!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

vexxxboy

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#2514065 28-Jun-2020 16:58

mattwnz:

Another concerning article about our managed isolation systems at the border

Covid-19: NZ's managed isolation system not broken, but under 'extreme stress' - review

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420020/covid-19-nz-s-managed-isolation-system-not-broken-but-under-extreme-stress-review

I think the problem is that we are now allowing too many to return at once, and also from countries where the cases are totally out of control. No precautions appear to be getting taken to reduce the risk of people from these countries having covid, such as pre isolation and pre testing prior to flying. I think this could come back to bite us badly. China claim that their new cases that are now in the community have come from overseas, and I would have thought they were super-strict at the borders with their quarantines, and they seem to wear full hazmat suits.

again you are falling into that area of not being able to stop NZ citizens/residents from coming home, it is the same reason why you cant charge them for Quarantine. If they want to come home they can and all we can do is what we are doing now and the article does say that we are doing that well, we just need to keep up with the demand which am sure the government knows what has to be done, you just have to trust them.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

frankv

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#2514068 28-Jun-2020 17:04

Seven weeks later, as the state once again closes businesses with virus cases skyrocketing and hospitals running out of intensive-care beds, Texas indeed appears to be a model: for how to squander a hopeful position through premature reopening, ignoring inconvenient data and fighting party-political turf wars.

Interesting that the worldometer doesn't show Texas as being in such a bad position. Only about 25% of available ICU beds are needed for CV19, and only about 6% of hospital beds, and in both cases the projections say they have months to spare. But maybe by "available" they mean "the total of all". So presumably 75% of ICU beds are needed for post-op and life support, and 94% of all beds are otherwise needed.

It's hard to gauge from Worldometer whether the problems are just in Houston (which was mentioned in the article), big cities, or are state-wide, because the stats are broken down by county, so you would have to know what counties related to which city. But in Harris county, which seems to cover most of Houston, new case numbers have been dropping since 11 June.

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jarledb

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#2514072 28-Jun-2020 17:35

frankv: Interesting that the worldometer doesn't show Texas as being in such a bad position.

I wouldn't trust Worldometer too much. It is not transparent how they get to the numbers they publish.

From CNN: The Covid-19 pandemic has catapulted one mysterious data website to prominence, sowing confusion in international rankings

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Fred99

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#2514079 28-Jun-2020 18:03

frankv:

Seven weeks later, as the state once again closes businesses with virus cases skyrocketing and hospitals running out of intensive-care beds, Texas indeed appears to be a model: for how to squander a hopeful position through premature reopening, ignoring inconvenient data and fighting party-political turf wars.

Interesting that the worldometer doesn't show Texas as being in such a bad position. Only about 25% of available ICU beds are needed for CV19, and only about 6% of hospital beds, and in both cases the projections say they have months to spare. But maybe by "available" they mean "the total of all". So presumably 75% of ICU beds are needed for post-op and life support, and 94% of all beds are otherwise needed.

It's hard to gauge from Worldometer whether the problems are just in Houston (which was mentioned in the article), big cities, or are state-wide, because the stats are broken down by county, so you would have to know what counties related to which city. But in Harris county, which seems to cover most of Houston, new case numbers have been dropping since 11 June.

Pretty sure that an article or stat I cited a few pages back, part of the issue was that they hadn't reduced ICU demand by postponing elective surgery etc, so only about 20% of ICU beds in Houston were vacant.

I believe that in clinical management, mechanical ventilation is now "last resort" - there's a poor prognosis, but 02 without mechanical ventilation has better prognosis than originally expected given the vital signs of the patient. IOW don't ventilate unless they'll die if you don't.

This "probably" showing in reducing case fatality rate observed in Italy etc - adjusted for variables (patient condition at time of admission, age, comorbidities, etc etc). I'd link to articles - but sorry - finding stuff again is a problem.

I think it's fair to assume that case fatality rate is falling due to better management of severe cases, but it's going to be hard to prove.

Fred99

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#2514083 28-Jun-2020 18:12

jarledb:

frankv: Interesting that the worldometer doesn't show Texas as being in such a bad position.

I wouldn't trust Worldometer too much. It is not transparent how they get to the numbers they publish.

From CNN: The Covid-19 pandemic has catapulted one mysterious data website to prominence, sowing confusion in international rankings

True - but I wouldn't trust anything too much - as far as "official" data from severely affected countries go. It's so heavily politicised, testing is so far behind probably "real" as opposed to "confirmed" cases, that testing also applies to how COD on death certificates is documented - nobody knows what's going on.

If we had a well-funded functional, inclusive WHO it might have been different.

mattwnz

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#2514098 28-Jun-2020 18:59

vexxxboy:

mattwnz:

Another concerning article about our managed isolation systems at the border

Covid-19: NZ's managed isolation system not broken, but under 'extreme stress' - review

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/420020/covid-19-nz-s-managed-isolation-system-not-broken-but-under-extreme-stress-review

I think the problem is that we are now allowing too many to return at once, and also from countries where the cases are totally out of control. No precautions appear to be getting taken to reduce the risk of people from these countries having covid, such as pre isolation and pre testing prior to flying. I think this could come back to bite us badly. China claim that their new cases that are now in the community have come from overseas, and I would have thought they were super-strict at the borders with their quarantines, and they seem to wear full hazmat suits.

again you are falling into that area of not being able to stop NZ citizens/residents from coming home, it is the same reason why you cant charge them for Quarantine. If they want to come home they can and all we can do is what we are doing now and the article does say that we are doing that well, we just need to keep up with the demand which am sure the government knows what has to be done, you just have to trust them.

Potentially they could if Airlines were fined for Covid cases that come in. Then Airlines would likely charge higher prices to cover this risk, plus reduce the risk of people coming into NZ with the virus. This money then goes to cover the quarantine costs.

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