Disputing a train fare with Tranz Metro

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#1127015 12-Sep-2014 09:22

Here's a photo of the 'policy' on the Wairarapa train. Nowhere is it mentioned that the fare applies when catching the Wairarapa train within the Hutt Valley, i.e. from Waterloo to Upper Hutt. The CSR Manager called yesterday and tried explaining the policy but could still not show me any written confirmation of it. 3 sources from Tranz Metro specifiy the fare applies when catching the train from Wellington. I believe they are voliating the Fair Trading Act by providing misleading information. It may only be $1 but it's an extra dollar I don't believe people should pay on top of their already purchased ticket.

MileHighKiwi

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#1127042 12-Sep-2014 09:56

I spoke with the Commerce Commission today and they believe the information provided by Tranz Metro and Metlink is potentially misleading and in breach of the Fair Trading Act. The CC rep read the policy while on the phone with me and said there's definitely a case to challenge it.

kiwitrc

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#1127084 12-Sep-2014 10:49

You have probably spent $150 worth of valuable time posting about it.

sbiddle

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#1127093 12-Sep-2014 10:56

markl:
For the life of me I cannot understand why they persist with actual people clipping actual paper tickets. The may have upgraded the 1950s trains, but they still have 1950s processes and staff who need upgrading (or removal!!) too!!!!

You would need to ask the GWRC about this, as they actually own the trains and are responsible for all ticketing across all public transport since it's a subsidised product. Tranz Metro are simply the operator of the services providing crew for trains which they no longer now even own (all rolling stock is owned by GWRC). Tranz Metro have no real say on ticketing as it's not really anything to do with them.

GWRC have said for many years that they are looking at integrated ticketing, and the latest a few months ago is that they are looking at going out to tender in late 2016 for a solution for all public transport in Wellington.

markl

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#1127109 12-Sep-2014 11:27

sbiddle:
markl:
For the life of me I cannot understand why they persist with actual people clipping actual paper tickets. The may have upgraded the 1950s trains, but they still have 1950s processes and staff who need upgrading (or removal!!) too!!!!

You would need to ask the GWRC about this, as they actually own the trains and are responsible for all ticketing across all public transport since it's a subsidised product. Tranz Metro are simply the operator of the services providing crew for trains which they no longer now even own (all rolling stock is owned by GWRC). Tranz Metro have no real say on ticketing as it's not really anything to do with them.

GWRC have said for many years that they are looking at integrated ticketing, and the latest a few months ago is that they are looking at going out to tender in late 2016 for a solution for all public transport in Wellington.

I agree, and am as up with the play on this one as you are - however TranzMetro are responsible for collecting the fare, and policing the ticketing systems. Its the way they choose to do it that gets me.

Geektastic

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#1128647 14-Sep-2014 22:57

My wife worked there for a while. It's a pretty antediluvian setup in management terms by all accounts, firmly mired somewhere around 1976! Just be glad the trains actually turn up.

My favourite is when they tell Maymorn passengers to 'disembark from the three carriages at the north end of the train' as if they are all carrying a compass. What is wrong with the 'three carriages at the front of the train'?!

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#1128752 15-Sep-2014 08:35

sbiddle:

GWRC have said for many years that they are looking at integrated ticketing, and the latest a few months ago is that they are looking at going out to tender in late 2016 for a solution for all public transport in Wellington.

It's likely the government will smack them down on that. The HOP solution owned by NZ Ticketing (a branch of NZTA) is meant to be rolled out nationwide after bedding down in Auckland.

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markl

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#1128807 15-Sep-2014 09:31

Kyanar:

It's likely the government will smack them down on that. The HOP solution owned by NZ Ticketing (a branch of NZTA) is meant to be rolled out nationwide after bedding down in Auckland.

It's not quite as simple as that - local body councils are mostly autonomous and Central government can't just tell them they HAVE to use a given solution, or do things in a certain way. They will likely incentivise it so that the HOP system is financially very attractive but you have to remember that Greater Wellington are in bed with Snapper in a big way. They aren't going to just throw Snapper in the bin and go with something else without very good reason.

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#1128912 15-Sep-2014 11:28

markl:
Kyanar:

It's likely the government will smack them down on that. The HOP solution owned by NZ Ticketing (a branch of NZTA) is meant to be rolled out nationwide after bedding down in Auckland.

It's not quite as simple as that - local body councils are mostly autonomous and Central government can't just tell them they HAVE to use a given solution, or do things in a certain way. They will likely incentivise it so that the HOP system is financially very attractive but you have to remember that Greater Wellington are in bed with Snapper in a big way. They aren't going to just throw Snapper in the bin and go with something else without very good reason.

Of course they can force them. They just make receipt of certain monies conditional on using it!!

The sooner they get rid of guards on trains and replace them with automatic ticketing and barriers the better IMV. We have actually had trains cancelled because no guard has turned up for work due to "illness"! The disruption to the working day of hundreds of people that results from that is a disgrace - especially in a situation where unlike Europe or Japan - rail companies are not made to pay customers compensation for failing to deliver their services.

markl

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#1128916 15-Sep-2014 11:32

Geektastic:

Of course they can force them. They just make receipt of certain monies conditional on using it!!

What monies exactly - NZTA doesn't fund GW at all...not for train fares at least. I know there are other schemes where subsidies are provided by NZTA and they therefore have "leverage" over the councils in those areas, but I'm not aware of NZTA providing subsidies for public transport use. Please do correct me if I'm wrong however.

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#1128989 15-Sep-2014 13:17

Kyanar:
sbiddle:

GWRC have said for many years that they are looking at integrated ticketing, and the latest a few months ago is that they are looking at going out to tender in late 2016 for a solution for all public transport in Wellington.

It's likely the government will smack them down on that. The HOP solution owned by NZ Ticketing (a branch of NZTA) is meant to be rolled out nationwide after bedding down in Auckland.

NZTA would love it to be rolled out nationwide, but when you've got a closed proprietary solution the fundamental issues with this aren't going to be solved easily. Don't expect HOP of your iPhone anytime soon.

Ultimately we've reaching a point where the need to question why we actually need to carry a card for public transport, which is a view that NZTA fundamentally disagree with. The UK are moving towards a far more open model where your Paypass/Paywave card can now be used in London instead of an Oyster card and that's a great direction to be heading.

NZTA want a clearing house model where all funding is localised (an Auckland HOP card would only ever work in Auckland for example, even if HOP was deployed nationwide.

mckenndk

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#1129002 15-Sep-2014 13:47

That wording can do with a bit of an overhaul.
It was implemented due to Wairarapa customers not being able to get a seat usually until Upper Hutt due to the train being full of people wanting a quick ride home.

It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

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#1129057 15-Sep-2014 14:19

The problem with ditching staff and moving to away from paper tickets is fare evasion.

Melbourne got rid of guards and saw levels of fare evasion on trains sky rocket to something like 20% and getting them back down under 10% has required a massive number of staff and ticket checking. While we could have barriers at Wellington which will eliminate far evasion in and out of Wellington, they're not feasible at any other station. Ultimately it's safe to say far evasion will increase and that is something that is carefully considered.

graemeh

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#1129060 15-Sep-2014 14:25

mckenndk: It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

Docklands rail in the UK do not have guards, they don't even have drivers or electronic barriers controlling access to the platforms.

They do have roving staff but not one on every train or platform.

mckenndk

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#1129074 15-Sep-2014 14:50

graemeh:
mckenndk: It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

Docklands rail in the UK do not have guards, they don't even have drivers or electronic barriers controlling access to the platforms.

They do have roving staff but not one on every train or platform.

It doesn't it depends on people being good and finding one of the tag in things that can be very hard to find at some stations.
I doubt a system like that would work in the Hutt Valley.

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