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kiwirock
685 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1164780 30-Oct-2014 07:42
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Sounds similar to my reception issues since I installed a new Pioneer unit in my Nissan Stagea a week ago.

The OEM blew up after coming and going for years since I bought it. The speakers were half ripped inside the doors when I opened them up. I think the OEM stereo was a Clarion or Bose, the speakers have seperate tweeters in the A pillar which I didn't need to replace but I did the dual cones with 2-ways instead.

The car has diversity antennas, on both sides of the side glass windows of the station wagon. They look like window heating elements but they are antennas.

I like them more than stubby or fixed polarisation antennas as they don't fade so much going up and down hills and a lot of broadcasters use circular polarisation in the bigger cities.

Since I made the stereo switch though and down to one antenna, it gets fuzzy now and then. I haven't decided if it's amplified or if it's just because I'm not using diversity but for the most part it sounds okay so I'm guessing it's not amp'd.

I'm installing a UHF transciever in the car soon so I might end up just putting in an ugly old school 1/4 wavelength adjustable antenna in the car. Once the UHF is installed it'll look ugly anyway.



linw

2849 posts

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  #1164783 30-Oct-2014 07:58
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Yes, sounds like a 'matching' problem. In my googling I came across the diversity issue and, also, the Nissan aerial amp issue. BigHammer has a Nissan that has an amp. You might need to power an amp?

Stu

Stu
Hammered
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  #1164803 30-Oct-2014 08:52
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Out of curiosity, is there a blue (or any) wire in the Lancer harness that's not connected in any way to your new head deck? Might have to trace everything through the connector blocks to check.




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linw

2849 posts

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  #1164808 30-Oct-2014 09:03
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Yes and no! I know what you are getting at. There is a blue power antenna wire from the new head unit that does have 12V on it when the unit is powered on. 

There is also an unconnected blue wire on the supplied harness that came with the new 2 DIN fascia kit. This wire corresponds to an orange wire with silver/grey bars on the Lancer plug. I tried connecting the blue wires to no effect. Got a bit worried as I don't really know what that orange wire is for! Everything still seems to work, though!!

tripper1000
1617 posts

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  #1165288 30-Oct-2014 20:52
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My money is on an un-powered amp causing your problems. Here is how I would prove/disprove it....

Do a continuity check between the antenna base (you may have to unscrew the stubby) and the center pin of the antenna connector. If you don't get continuity there is a really high chance that either:

1) there is an amp somewhere, in which case you'll need to figure out how to power it up.
or
2) you have accidentally busted the center conductor of the coax somewhere.

If you do get continuity, make sure that you don't also have continuity/a dead short to earth. 

 I doubt that you have a wavelength/impedance problem. Wavelength is practically always governed by the desired receive frequency, not the receiver design (active antenna tuning units aside) and is generally the  same regardless of impedance (feed point changes to vary impedance but the elements remain more or less the same length). I also doubt it is would be a queer impedance of factory radio, for two reasons: 1) new radio would still get OK reception in a reasonable signal strength area, 2) antenna would need odd-ball coax to connect it to the factory radio which is more complicated/expensive than any car maker could be bothered with.

Google for some circuit diagrams/service manuals of your car. (body number helps, as it may have a different English name to the USA/UK/Oz/Japan) That's how I confirmed my Toyota had an antenna amp.

linw

2849 posts

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  #1165380 30-Oct-2014 22:48
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Thanks, tripper, for your obviously learned advice. I was going to try the continuity thing but it doesn't seem that this rubber ducky is screwed in. I have tried a few times but it just won't budge. There is a conspiracy afoot! No dead short in the cable. It shows open circuit between centre and shield. 

I will have another go at getting a definitive answer on the amp question. The company that supplied and services the car hasn't rung me back yet so will nudge them again tomorrow. 

The saga continues!!

linw

2849 posts

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  #1166745 2-Nov-2014 07:54
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I think I have to assume that there is no aerial amp. I powered the centre pin via an ammeter and no current was drawn. 

The Supercheap Auto Aerpro Shark fin with amp was not usable as it just had a short 12V wire and a short coax cable with plug.

Repco could order me an amp at $56. Pretty dear, especially as I don't know whether it would help. That's a real problem as there are plenty of fake 'boosters' on sale and even ones that do have a real amp circuit may just not do what I want. 

Might try making up an internal dipole thingy with coax and experiment.

 
 
 

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linw

2849 posts

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  #1166752 2-Nov-2014 08:24
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tripper1000
1617 posts

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  #1168751 4-Nov-2014 18:55
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Dipoles laying horizontal tend to be a bit directional, meaning it will get better signal front and back than it does left and right, but it may be good enough in your area - hard to know without trying.

Regarding powering the amp: in my toyota it was not powered via the coax (that is more of a TV aerial thing). It had a separate wire that was effectively hooked to the amp/power antenna wire of the factory head deck. It was a few years ago, but I think I just hooked the antenna amp wire it to the switched positive (no continuous, otherwise it will drain the battery when parked) to get it going. You can prove this by powering up the factory head deck and measuring the voltage on the antenna socket. I would be surprise it you see any significant voltage there. If access is a problem jam an extra wire into the socket and have it coming around the front (get it there with the power off in case it takes several attempts and you short circuit stuff you shouldn't).

linw

2849 posts

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  #1169170 5-Nov-2014 11:53
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Agree on the dipole thoughts. I was hoping not to have to resort to this as just plugging in the stock aerial plug is just so much cleaner! I, also, don't think the amp, if it exists, is powered from the coax lead. It reads open circuit so isn't on a DC circuit. Hard to get the stock unit back in to test as it has a ribbon cable going to the fascia and that will be tricky to re-insert.

Found a Mitsi Lancer Wiring pdf but it didn't say what year it was for. However, it did illustrate an amp that was there if you had a roof mounted aerial. The plug on the diag doesn't match mine, though.

Also found a 2009 wiring table that listed a pink "Stereo Antenna Trigger Wire".

I revisited my wiring harness and realised I had made a mistake in identifying the car-side wire that matched up with my harness blue antenna power wire. I thought it was orange but the real matching wire is pink. Mmmm, matches above table. 

I measured 4.6K ohms to ground with power off on that pink wire and with power on it I measured 51mA current draw. Sounded about right.

However, with that wire powered, the reception was worse!!! Damn, damn, damn.

I have emailed Mexteds to see if they will clarify the situation but wonder whether they will come to the party. 

Wondering, now, just what my options are. Not feeling greatly optimistic.

I installed a great little CCD rear camera on Monday so it's just this darn aerial deficiency now.

Thanks for replying, tripper.

linw

2849 posts

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  #1169398 5-Nov-2014 16:56
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Well, I think I have cracked it. A friend across the road is a ham radio freak and when he heard the result of powering on the aerial amp (I am presuming this is the amp working, now!), he immediately said it was over modulation causing the bad sound. Immediately made sense to me.

Experimenting with two resistors adding up to around 75 ohms I am able to attenuate the signal to get the sound OK. Haven't yet road tested it to see whether I can get the happy compromise between range and distortion but it looks promising and sounds logical.

Fingers crossed!!

linw

2849 posts

Uber Geek


  #1170349 6-Nov-2014 21:34
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To round this off, my made up attenuator works to stop overloading the radio front end and it seems OK away from my house where there is a very strong signal. 

Hope this helps anyone else with the same problem with a similar lancer.

Thanks to responders who took the time to reply. Many were on target about the amp being required with stubby aerials. And, of course, the amp needs to be at the aerial to stop a weak signal being lost by cable capacitance.

I've learnt a lot!!

Will be able to get the fascia back on now! Overall, I am happy with my unit. Got the reversing camera wired in now and it gives a very good image.

Cheers and thanks again.

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