Panel Beating / Car Repair help

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3438 posts

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#1343046 14-Jul-2015 14:33

sep11guy: hmmmmm.

its kind of a tough decision. how about if i approach this from another angle.

at what % cost of repair of the car, do you think it would be wise to fix your self and above that %, you would claim.

say for eg, if car cost $20, you can say if its above x$, i would repair thru insurance, and if its below x$, i would do it myself.

would this be a good way of looking at this ?

Not really. If it were me, I would look at it like this. I pay $1000 per year for my insurance and I have a 50% NCB therefore the base premium is $2000. If we assume (for simplicity) that the base premium remains at $2000 each year (in reality, it probably increases, and your sum assured decreases so who knows?). I'll also assume that after claiming, NCB will reduce to 30% for next year, 40% the year after and back to 50% after that. From there, it might go up to 60% and even 65%...

Premiums (with claim, without claim):

Year 1: $2000 * (1 - 30%) = $1400, $2000 * (1 - 60%) = $800
Year 2: $2000 * (1 - 40%) = $1200, $2000 * (1 - 65%) = $700
Year 3: $2000 * (1 - 50%) = $1000, $2000 * (1 - 65%) = $700
Year 4: $2000 * (1 - 60%) = $800, $2000 * (1 - 65%) = $700
Year 5: $2000 * (1 - 65%) = $700, $2000 * (1 - 65%) = $700

So, over the next 5 years, I will pay $1,500 extra in premiums. This doesn't take into account the time value of money, or the fact that once you hit 65% you might get "no claims bonus for life". It is also purely hypothetical and your own premiums and NCB arrangement might (will) be different. Your insurance company won't even be able to tell you what your actual premium will be 5 years from now, but it could give you an idea.

sep11guy

660 posts

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Inactive user

#1343048 14-Jul-2015 14:34

yeah, i am kinda overthinking it , mainly cause of the cost$$ of repairs involved.

If it was 800$ or similar i would not have thrown a thread here.

I am just trying to work out if its best paying upfront cash, and move on. or make use of the insurance which i have . Another problem i see is, I am not sure if asking the insurance company is the right way to do this as well, cause they will put some flags on the file, and record conversations too.

So all that kinda brought me here, to see if you all can possibly help out.

Even if you could give me a rough guidance in terms of numbers, which is most cost effective, that will help me to take the right decision.

bazzer

3438 posts

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#1343051 14-Jul-2015 14:39

Geektastic:
jonathan18:
ubergeeknz:
sep11guy: yeah , so lets assume premiums do go up, so i want to know that if its worth going thru the insurance , claim and pay the extra monthly fee or am i better of bite the bullet, doing it on my own, and keeping my record clean .

You just need to ask what your premium will go up to, and then do the math. There's no magic answer.

Exactly. Previously I've been in this situation, and the insurance company was able to to tell me the approximate impact the loss of the no claims bonus would have on my next premium; I could then calculate the total cost of the claim (excess plus increase in the following year's premium), and assess whether it was worth claiming.

I reckon the whole no claims bonus thing is partly set up to place the fear factor in policy holders' minds, namely that put them off claiming in situations where it still would be financially advantageous. Eg, some people won't use their car insurance policy just because they don't want to lose their no claims bonus, whether or not the overall cost will be less than paying for the repairs themselves.

Poppycock. NCB is there to reward careful drivers. Excess is there to stop piffling claims.

The AA offer guaranteed NCB for life.

Also, don't forget that the insurance companies use claims history as a pricing factor when calculating the base premium (i.e. before NCB). So, you may still have 65% NCB but your claims history can still affect your premium.

Inphinity

2780 posts

Uber Geek

#1343063 14-Jul-2015 14:42

Cost relative to the price of the car is not a good measure imo, relative to the premium/excess is. As above, personally if it's more than 20%, maybe 30% above the excess, I would have insurance do it. It does depend a bit on the value of the vehicle, and the premiums/excess.

Let's say your excess is $500. Lets say your repair is $1500. Lets say your vehicle is worth $15k, and your premium is $800/year. Even if the claim increases your premium by 20% the next year, that's only $160. And let's say the impact of that reduces by 20% (of original) per year for 5 years, so you pay $480 over 5 years in increased premiums. For $1000 worth of repair today. Chances are your premium won't go up by 20%, and it won't take 5 years to reduce off whatever it goes up by (especially factoring in vehicle devaluation due to aging etc).

frankv

5680 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#1343065 14-Jul-2015 14:45

Whatever you do, don't let the insurance company choose the repairer. They'll go with the cheapest, not the best. So make sure you have a repairer picked out *before* making the insurance claim.

sep11guy

660 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1343074 14-Jul-2015 14:53

Inphinity: Cost relative to the price of the car is not a good measure imo, relative to the premium/excess is. As above, personally if it's more than 20%, maybe 30% above the excess, I would have insurance do it. It does depend a bit on the value of the vehicle, and the premiums/excess.

Let's say your excess is $500. Lets say your repair is $1500. Lets say your vehicle is worth $15k, and your premium is $800/year. Even if the claim increases your premium by 20% the next year, that's only $160. And let's say the impact of that reduces by 20% (of original) per year for 5 years, so you pay $480 over 5 years in increased premiums. For $1000 worth of repair today. Chances are your premium won't go up by 20%, and it won't take 5 years to reduce off whatever it goes up by (especially factoring in vehicle devaluation due to aging etc).

My case is very close to what you have mentioned here, very good work on the post, i must say Inphinity .

Now my other doubt is that if i make claim, then would my claim for the other car go up too ? or would that be just for this car.

so removing the excess out of the equation , i am now left with $1000-$1200 to pay . for argument sake if it goes up by 25% ( worst case scenario ) . So essentially , I would be paying that back in about 4.5yrs , a history of claim, and effect to no claim bonus.

now i just need to work out whats the actual $$ value of no claim bonus ( just indicative will do ) and then i will be closer to making my decision.

Thanks heaps Inphinity.

bazzer

3438 posts

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#1343092 14-Jul-2015 15:09

sep11guy:
Inphinity: Cost relative to the price of the car is not a good measure imo, relative to the premium/excess is. As above, personally if it's more than 20%, maybe 30% above the excess, I would have insurance do it. It does depend a bit on the value of the vehicle, and the premiums/excess.

Let's say your excess is $500. Lets say your repair is $1500. Lets say your vehicle is worth $15k, and your premium is $800/year. Even if the claim increases your premium by 20% the next year, that's only $160. And let's say the impact of that reduces by 20% (of original) per year for 5 years, so you pay $480 over 5 years in increased premiums. For $1000 worth of repair today. Chances are your premium won't go up by 20%, and it won't take 5 years to reduce off whatever it goes up by (especially factoring in vehicle devaluation due to aging etc).

My case is very close to what you have mentioned here, very good work on the post, i must say Inphinity .

Now my other doubt is that if i make claim, then would my claim for the other car go up too ? or would that be just for this car.

so removing the excess out of the equation , i am now left with $1000-$1200 to pay . for argument sake if it goes up by 25% ( worst case scenario ) . So essentially , I would be paying that back in about 4.5yrs , a history of claim, and effect to no claim bonus.

now i just need to work out whats the actual $$ value of no claim bonus ( just indicative will do ) and then i will be closer to making my decision.

Thanks heaps Inphinity.

I have to disagree with Inphinity's assertion that premium is unlikely to go up by 20% next year after claim. Even if you had no adverse change to your no claims bonus, I would expect that the fact you've had a claim in the last year could increase your premiums by 20%. When you take into account NCB, it's even worse. For example, NCB decreasing from 20% (i.e. 80% base premium) to 0% (i.e. 100% base premium) is 25% increase before claims history is taken into account. NCB decreasing from 65% (i.e. 35% base premium) to 50% (i.e. 50% base premium) is 40% increase!

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Paul1977

5044 posts

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#1343101 14-Jul-2015 15:13

I claimed on some damage to my car last year because with AMI I get freeBmax, which lets me claim up to twice a year with no effect of my no claims bonus. Are some of you saying that this will effect my premiums next year anyway?

Home: Work:
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Inphinity

2780 posts

Uber Geek

#1343105 14-Jul-2015 15:15

Paul1977: I claimed on some damage to my car last year because with AMI I get freeBmax, which lets me claim up to twice a year with no effect of my no claims bonus. Are some of you saying that this will effect my premiums next year anyway?

Yes, it may. No Claims Bonus is generally applied after the base premium is calculated. It does not prevent your base premium being increased.

Paul1977

5044 posts

Uber Geek

#1343117 14-Jul-2015 15:17

Inphinity:
Paul1977: I claimed on some damage to my car last year because with AMI I get freeBmax, which lets me claim up to twice a year with no effect of my no claims bonus. Are some of you saying that this will effect my premiums next year anyway?

Yes, it may. No Claims Bonus is generally applied after the base premium is calculated. It does not prevent your base premium being increased.

Oh well, will find out in November when it renews. Mine wasn't from bad driving, some punks vandalized it - don't know whether that will make a difference.

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1345080 15-Jul-2015 23:47

the other thing to remember for the people who say do not tell there insurance so premium do not go up - none disclosure could void the policy if they find out about it
http://www.claimshelp.co.nz/duty-of-disclosure

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1345087 16-Jul-2015 00:37

Ignoring the insurance side of things, what part of the car is it?

I used to be in the industry, but if possible these days, I'd use no-paint dent-magician-type places unless there's a deep crease or stuffed paint every time.

(I'm a qualified spray painter by trade, but hate it)

andrewNZ

2487 posts

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Inactive user

#1345111 16-Jul-2015 07:23

You already have the answer, phone them and ask these questions.

I once did 16k damage to a 30k car (my fault) and I don't remember it affecting my premiums at all.

Asking them will not have a negative impact.

jonathan18

7413 posts

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#1345171 16-Jul-2015 09:30

I got a call from my insurance company yesterday about my own current claim - they were able to identify the impact on my next year's premium to the cent: an excess of $300 plus impact on premium of $271 so a total cost of $571, versus $592 for repairs.

This certainly makes it not worth claiming, but it also means it may be worth trying to find an alternative cheaper way of making the repairs (or at least make it look ok!).

So, at the risk of hijacking this thread (mods - please let me know if I should start another one), is anyone able to advise what the most most-effective ways would be to repair/improve the aesthetics of this most recent 'mistake'? I'm happy to take it to the panel beaters, but if I'm going to have to pay the full amount I'd like to get it lower than the $592 quoted thus far.

Also, any advice appreciated on this one from a few days' earlier (not too worried about getting the dent taken out here, as I know that will be expensive; at least improving the markings on the car:

(In my defence, both these actually look worse in the photos than in real life!)

Thanks for any advice...

Edit: I have previously purchased one of those small vials of the right paint, so have that available; I've also got a clearcoat pen somewhere too, if either of these things could help improve it without too much skill required.

highspeedsteel

34 posts

Geek

#1345182 16-Jul-2015 09:44

Jonathan18,

Grab some cut and polish, maybe even straight cutting compound if there is other paint on the surface (available from Repco/Supercheap etc), this will make it look better. I've done this before although only on a car that was worth $1500 so not really worth spending money on and it went from looking pretty rough to hardly noticeable.

OP - I think you are right on the point where its a 50:50 decision if you make a claim.

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