Mobile phones and driving - should this happen in NZ?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Mobile phones and driving - should this happen in NZ?

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Awrrr
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#1692929 20-Dec-2016 17:14

shk292:

scuwp:

That's not comparing apples with apples. If you think your brain attention processing doesn't change when involved in a phone conversation your wrong. That's the biggest problem with regulating phone use, people don't appreciate or understand the impact it has. Also planes rarely fly in such close proximity to each other that a split second makes all the difference, nor do they have a 'road' to stay on. The margin for error in a plane for a collision is huge. A few feet one way or the other means very little other than a minor course deviation. Studies have also looked at RT conversations and found marked differences when compared to mobile phone use.

All valid points, but I still think it is unrealistic to expect or require a driver to devote 100% of concentration to driving 100% of the time. Otherwise we'd need to ban kids, animals, cigarettes, ICE and a whole lot of other things from vehicles, or ensure complete separation from the driver. IMHO, allowing hands-free voice calls is a reasonable compromise between safety and freedom

The science regarding hands-free phone distraction while driving appears to be pretty solid. Who is so important, or has such important things to say, that they can't wait a few moments to pull over at an appropriate location? Maybe there isn't a lot that can be done about kids and similar distractions, though cigarettes are certainly another matter, but I would rather not share the road with someone who is so busy doing other things and so convinced that those other things matter more than paying full attention to good driving. For god's sake, just wait until you get home. That is what everyone else did until just a few years ago.

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Jase2985

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#1692931 20-Dec-2016 17:15

Geektastic:

I would not assume that they are concerned about whether passengers can use their phones.

Shocking as this may be to anyone under about 30, there was a time when you could not make calls in cars..! Perhaps we will be returning to that state. I for one certainly wouldn't mind if you could not use them on trains.

Perhaps it will disable voice calls or something rather than data, on the basis that something is better than nothing.

At least they are hitting the miscreants with a big stick, unlike here where you get a pathetically small fine.

As far as cameras go, that might well be possible given the vast network of speed cameras and so on in the UK. They already take a photo of the driver for ID in speeding cases, so if they have a system that identifies cellphones being used as the car approaches the camera, then maybe they could snap you at it!

Certainly we need to do something here - and a fine and points which actually hurt would be a start.

I'm surprised that so many do it in the UK because there would be an additional penalty not present here - since insurance is compulsory there, so is declaring any infringements and/or points when you renew, and your annual premium will certainly be increased as a result.

and if you make calls over data?

the idea is preposterous, just police it better or design a camera system that can identify if someone is on the phone and automatically fine them for it.

Much better idea than preventing EVERYONE in a vehicle from being able to use their device.

the amount of productivity and $$$ lost in industry would be enormous

gregmcc

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#1692936 20-Dec-2016 17:20

KiwiME:

Why would anyone imagine that the designers of such technology would not take account of such a simple shortfall?

Because it's been suggested by politicians who may be full of good intentions but have not the 1st idea on how to make it work......"just make it happen and spend heaps of taxpayers money doing it"

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#1692964 20-Dec-2016 19:19

gregmcc:

KiwiME:

Why would anyone imagine that the designers of such technology would not take account of such a simple shortfall?

Because it's been suggested by politicians who may be full of good intentions but have not the 1st idea on how to make it work......"just make it happen and spend heaps of taxpayers money doing it"

Anyone want to start a company and bid for the feasibility study?!

alasta

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#1692967 20-Dec-2016 19:39

richms:

The problem with all the car based systems is they seem to be stuck years in the past even when new, so on a few year old car they are prettymuch useless. Friend has a car that will load his phonebook from his phone onto it, so that you can call/sms people from the phonebook. It only works with the phonebook, not any messaging apps that people tend to use instead of SMS and native calling nowdays. So still have to use the phone to initiate the call or type the whatsapp message.

Same for music control. The can only works with the stock music player app, the one that plays songs stored on the phone rather than any streaming services etc. It can do next/previous track if you manually open spotify and start stuff, but again its pretty useless for how people actually use a device.

Carplay will resolve this because it should be scalable to support the type of thing that you describe.

shk292

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#1692968 20-Dec-2016 19:42

Rikkitic:

The science regarding hands-free phone distraction while driving appears to be pretty solid. Who is so important, or has such important things to say, that they can't wait a few moments to pull over at an appropriate location? Maybe there isn't a lot that can be done about kids and similar distractions, though cigarettes are certainly another matter, but I would rather not share the road with someone who is so busy doing other things and so convinced that those other things matter more than paying full attention to good driving. For god's sake, just wait until you get home. That is what everyone else did until just a few years ago.

Safety is always a compromise against other factors - cost, convenience, performance, aesthetics, etc. Anyone who believes otherwise just hasn't thought it through. Is allowing hands-free calls more dangerous than allowing cars to go at 100kph instead of 70kph? Or more dangerous than allowing any alcohol in a driver's blood? Or allowing 16 year old children to drive high-performance sports cars? Or allowing barely capable octogenarians to drive? What about allowing kids to be passengers in cars without ABS or curtain air bags? If you start legislating for safety over absolutely everything, it's hard to see where you stop.

It's just my opinion, but IMHO having the occasional hands-free phone call while driving doesn't make me a hazard to other road users. NZ law currently agrees with me, and I hope it continues that way.

Technofreak

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#1693026 20-Dec-2016 22:14

Geektastic:

Shocking as this may be to anyone under about 30, there was a time when you could not make calls in cars..! Perhaps we will be returning to that state. I for one certainly wouldn't mind if you could not use them on trains.

In those days we used Radio Telephones, which were no where near as user friendly as a handsfree kit.

I don't see the issues with using a handsfree kit. Using the logic suggested by some people, the end result if we take the safety at all cost approach is the motor car will end up being banned, not just the use of mobile phones.

Frankly if someone doesn't have the cognitive skills to talk on a handsfree kit and drive they shouldn't be driving to start with.

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Geektastic

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#1693035 20-Dec-2016 23:04

Technofreak:

Geektastic:

Shocking as this may be to anyone under about 30, there was a time when you could not make calls in cars..! Perhaps we will be returning to that state. I for one certainly wouldn't mind if you could not use them on trains.

In those days we used Radio Telephones, which were no where near as user friendly as a handsfree kit.

I don't see the issues with using a handsfree kit. Using the logic suggested by some people, the end result if we take the safety at all cost approach is the motor car will end up being banned, not just the use of mobile phones.

Frankly if someone doesn't have the cognitive skills to talk on a handsfree kit and drive they shouldn't be driving to start with.

To be fair, hardly anyone in the general population did that!

k1w1k1d

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#1693042 21-Dec-2016 00:26

Looks like I should hand in my driver's licence seeing that I don't have the required cognitive skills.

Batman

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#1693051 21-Dec-2016 06:57

Better not have an emergency in the car

MikeB4

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#1693054 21-Dec-2016 07:36

shk292:
scuwp:

That's not comparing apples with apples. If you think your brain attention processing doesn't change when involved in a phone conversation your wrong. That's the biggest problem with regulating phone use, people don't appreciate or understand the impact it has. Also planes rarely fly in such close proximity to each other that a split second makes all the difference, nor do they have a 'road' to stay on. The margin for error in a plane for a collision is huge. A few feet one way or the other means very little other than a minor course deviation. Studies have also looked at RT conversations and found marked differences when compared to mobile phone use.

All valid points, but I still think it is unrealistic to expect or require a driver to devote 100% of concentration to driving 100% of the time. Otherwise we'd need to ban kids, animals, cigarettes, ICE and a whole lot of other things from vehicles, or ensure complete separation from the driver. IMHO, allowing hands-free voice calls is a reasonable compromise between safety and freedom

Won't be an issue in the not too distant future when driverless transport will be required. Can't wait for that bring it on.

scuwp

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#1693055 21-Dec-2016 07:41

Technofreak:

Geektastic:

Shocking as this may be to anyone under about 30, there was a time when you could not make calls in cars..! Perhaps we will be returning to that state. I for one certainly wouldn't mind if you could not use them on trains.

In those days we used Radio Telephones, which were no where near as user friendly as a handsfree kit.

I don't see the issues with using a handsfree kit. Using the logic suggested by some people, the end result if we take the safety at all cost approach is the motor car will end up being banned, not just the use of mobile phones.

Frankly if someone doesn't have the cognitive skills to talk on a handsfree kit and drive they shouldn't be driving to start with.

Sorry but this is exactly my previous point. The general public have little concept of the effect of holding a conversation with a person who is not present in the car has on their cognitive ability. It doesn't matter if you're holding a phone or on hands-free. The fact is they get away with it a lot of the time so "...don't see the issue...". When we are all on 'autopilot' and everything is going to plan we all tend to get away with it, the problem comes in when there is an unusual or unexpected event.

I no longer have access to the SAE research as I have been out of the field for a while, but the science is consistent on this one around the world. Observation, interpretation, decision making, and reactions are all slower and not as accurate when a driver is holding a remote conversation. A quick google:

https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/resources/how-distracting-is-talking-on-a-mobile-phone-when-driving/

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/349/docs/349.pdf

http://metaffordance.com/papers/driving-phones-TRF-2004.pdf

The NZ Medical Association proposed a similar GPS-movement disabling technology in 2013, authors including some of the leading NZ researches in this field from Waikato University That never went anywhere either, and I doubt this proposal will unless they can somehow limit the tech as applying to the driver alone. banning all mobile phone use by anyone in a moving car would be political suicide.

https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/read-the-journal/all-issues/2010-2019/2013/vol-126-no-1384/5882

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

PaulBags

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#1693063 21-Dec-2016 08:10

Understanding of distractions/reactions/concentration should be part of the road code, and with a level of understanding in place making decisions what level of distraction is reasonible in a situation should be up to the driver.

There's no test for how tired or emotional someone is, no camera is going to capture that, but we still expect drivers to consider their state and ability and pull over if nessicary. Same with rowdy passengers - pull over until they quiet down or get out.

It's up to the driver to ensure they can drive safely to the conditions and situation, guidelines are great but rather than get specific and introduce technological interventions the offense should be poor judgement/not considering safety.

Dingbatt

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#1693088 21-Dec-2016 09:25

As mentioned earlier, enforcement of the current law would be a good start! Maybe the council could be tasked with it as well. If they approached it with the same zeal that they apply to policing Bus/Multiple Occupancy lanes, parking on grass verges on narrow streets, etc, then there would be the double benefit of increasing compliance and revenue (tongue-in-cheek) at the same time.
I'm sure Google would not be impressed if Maps functionality was disabled along with data. Because of you don't disable data then Apps will take over the functions of voice calling and SMS.
Perhaps the answer is to make things even more hands free and have the phone notice you are driving and ask if you want to accept the call from ....., or a txt from ...... shall I read it to you? I know there are lower level versions of this at the moment, but they still require you to take your eyes off the road to check a display and interact physically with the phone through the vehicle's hands free controls.
I have set up a poor man's version of this using Tasker (Android App). My phone automatically goes into 'Car Mode' (mine not the OEM one) when connected to the car Bluetooth and charger. It announces who has texted and reads the message to me, then asks if I want to send an "I'm driving reply". "Yes", sends that message, "No" asks if I want to reply, etc. Most of the time I just say nothing and it times out and does nothing, because 90% of the texts I receive are not immediately important. If I could set something up to do voice, would be awesome. I know there are apps to do similar, but most I have investigated have been pretty basic and limiting.
Nanny state legislators are all about the prohibitive rather than innovative. I was obviously mistaken in thinking that Britain's departure from the EU would have reduced this sort of nonsense.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

techmeister

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#1694566 24-Dec-2016 12:48

And how many people die on NZ roads because of cell phones ?

Maybe I should check the stats, I'm picking it won't be that high.

Better roads and less traffic (better public transport) would be a far better way to save lives

rather than this load of bollicks.

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