NZ's Cheapest EV This Week: $9,850

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#1695774 28-Dec-2016 12:34

huckster:

networkn:

Are there any EV SW's or SUV's in NZ? We need way more trunk capacity than a standard sedan (plus have a German Shepherd).

I have been contemplating the idea of an EV or Hybrid for a while though have done next to no research.

There's the Mitsubishi PHEV. Hybrid.

We had the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for a test drive at one point this year. EV mode only lasts 37KM and less. Then it falls back on to petrol. While it does save you on a bit of gas, at the end of the day it is a plug-in hybrid meaning you have to plug it in to charge meaning it uses house electricity too.

Sony

jarledb

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#1695861 28-Dec-2016 14:53

NonprayingMantis: How long before teslas come down in price to something more affordable?

Depends on what you consider affordable. Up until July this year Tesla was running a "resale value guarantee program" that was designed to make buyers less concerned with how much their cars would be worth when it was time to sell them again. That has probably been part of keeping resell values for older Tesla Model S high.

The cheapest Model S I could find in Norway (which have a LOT of them) is ~72,000 NZD for a 2013 model that has gone 115000 KM. Keep in mind that these cars are exempt of GST and other taxes in Norway.

The "affordable" Tesla is probably going to be the Model 3, when it becomes available sometime in 2018/2019.

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Linuxluver

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#1696002 28-Dec-2016 22:39

NonprayingMantis: How long before teslas come down in price to something more affordable?

The Tesla Model 3 is supposed to be available in it's most basic configuration from about US$35,000 starting in Q4 2017. It won't be available in Right Hand Drive form in NZ until 2018.

The start date for North America may slip.....but sometime in 2018 seems pretty reasonable for NZ. Current thinking is that the NZ price may be around $50k-60k....a good chunk of which may be GST. There is also a chance of better pricing in 2018 if we see a change of government as Labour / Greens / NZ First all have better policies in support of EVs (and public transport) than the current government.....who are basically doing nothing about climate change.

Other EVs are also coming along in the months ahead. There is already a 41kWh Renault Zoe with a 400km range available in NZ for about NZ$45,000 ('used' low-kms import). Check TradeMe. Importers are bringing in - or can get - some great EVs.

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Linuxluver

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#1696004 28-Dec-2016 22:50

networkn:

Are there any EV SW's or SUV's in NZ? We need way more trunk capacity than a standard sedan (plus have a German Shepherd).

I have been contemplating the idea of an EV or Hybrid for a while though have done next to no research.

There is one. :-)

You can order a RHD Tesla Model X in NZ$ via the Tesla web site now....and it will be delivered in March 2017 (probably). A snip at NZ$130k. :-(

Otherwise you're looking at a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (can do about 45km on the battery, then cuts over to petrol). The imported Outlanders have DC fast charging. The local ones appear to only have slower Type1 charging (at about 16amp).

There are a swag of EV SUVs in China but they are all left hand drive and only sold in China. China has the biggest range of EVs on the planet. In 5 years I'm thinking they may come to dominate the global EV market...which is giving American and European car makers nightmares.

You can also think about a conversion project.....but they take time and cost a fair bit as everything is custom and it needs to be roadworthy when done.

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networkn

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#1696014 28-Dec-2016 23:33

I would wonder about the impact on the planet of making and disposing of the batteries let alone the cost.

Linuxluver

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#1696040 29-Dec-2016 08:42

networkn: I would wonder about the impact on the planet of making and disposing of the batteries let alone the cost.

The cost of batteries of all kinds is falling rapidly. We've seen stories over the past week from Nissan saying they think they can reach price parity between fossil-fuel vehicles and battery electric vehicles within 5 years.

EV batteries can be re-cycled (unlike the petrol burned in a billion cars). There are precious metals and the lithium can be re-used. Currently, it's cheaper to just mine more lithium, which is why we need some leadership at government level so the brain-dead market doesn't make yet another mess someone else has to clean up later.

Burning fossil fuels has given us climate change and oil spills too numerous to count....and the 'costs' of all that are yet to be actually realised but we can be certain it will be all of us who have to foot the bill. But right now many of us are still happy to run up the debit balance on the Greenhouse Gas Credit Card and pretend it costs nothing. Not to mention the cancer costs due to emissions of carcinogenic particulates, PARTICULARLY via diesel.

Any costs arising from making, using and re-cycling batteries for EVs will be trivial and easily localised, compared to vehicle exhaust which is everywhere people live and to the harm done every second of every day by fossil fuels to climate, water and health.

You must be in a near panic about those costs already as they are largely already out there......and EVs, solar panels, wind-power generators, powerwalls and all the rest are serious attempts to address the huge and growing problems caused by what we do right now.....and have done for a century.

The "long tail" of CO2 emissions.......

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#1696054 29-Dec-2016 09:06

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/87990061/careful-planning-fuels-epic-electric-journey-from-christchurch-to-nelson

Very cool. Add more charging points, blend them into bathroom/meal/rest stops, etc

$7-40 ChCh to Nelson

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Linuxluver

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#1696149 29-Dec-2016 12:44

tdgeek:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/87990061/careful-planning-fuels-epic-electric-journey-from-christchurch-to-nelson

Very cool. Add more charging points, blend them into bathroom/meal/rest stops, etc

$7-40 ChCh to Nelson

This is one of the best things about EVs.

No HazChem requirements and no ground contamination as with leaky petrol tanks underground....so they avoid most of the regulatory snags petrol and diesel entail......and so easy to set up: just call a sparky and usually it's all over in an hour.

It takes more time and money to set up a fast charger, but for most EV owners a 16amp blue commando plug will do the job reasonable quickly and well.

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tdgeek

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#1696152 29-Dec-2016 12:50

Linuxluver:

tdgeek:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/87990061/careful-planning-fuels-epic-electric-journey-from-christchurch-to-nelson

Very cool. Add more charging points, blend them into bathroom/meal/rest stops, etc

$7-40 ChCh to Nelson

This is one of the best things about EVs.

No HazChem requirements and no ground contamination as with leaky petrol tanks underground....so they avoid most of the regulatory snags petrol and diesel entail......and so easy to set up: just call a sparky and usually it's all over in an hour.

It takes more time and money to set up a fast charger, but for most EV owners a 16amp blue commando plug will do the job reasonable quickly and well.

Why on earth are there hybrids?? The car now weighs more, less range. Costs more as EV plus all the same engine and drive train. EV is getting good, so make it low weight and low running costs, and kick the 4 strpoke to touch. We use our car mainly around town, EV would be perfect, and if it can cater for rural so much the better. I guess an "external battery pack" for extra range not really an option due to size and weight?

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#1696202 29-Dec-2016 15:01

Linuxluver:

You must be in a near panic about those costs already as they are largely already out there......and EVs, solar panels, wind-power generators, powerwalls and all the rest are serious attempts to address the huge and growing problems caused by what we do right now.....and have done for a century.

Yes, thanks for your condescending superior attitude, it's half the reason people get pissed off with "greenies".

Attitudes just like this one put people off the discussion.

There are lots of recyclable parts in a traditional car too.

SMH

MikeB4

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#1696209 29-Dec-2016 15:26

networkn:

Linuxluver:

You must be in a near panic about those costs already as they are largely already out there......and EVs, solar panels, wind-power generators, powerwalls and all the rest are serious attempts to address the huge and growing problems caused by what we do right now.....and have done for a century.

Yes, thanks for your condescending superior attitude, it's half the reason people get pissed off with "greenies".

Attitudes just like this one put people off the discussion.

There are lots of recyclable parts in a traditional car too.

SMH

The battery problem does concern me, however I think if we were to do a environment profit and loss assessment EV's would come out well into the profit side of the ledger compared to internal combustion. Battery technology is improving at a good pace and this will improve however there will

always be an environmental impact of anything except walking barefoot.

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#1696233 29-Dec-2016 17:12

networkn:

Yes, thanks for your condescending superior attitude, it's half the reason people get pissed off with "greenies".

Attitudes just like this one put people off the discussion.

I didn't think he was condescending. But maybe a little tired of dealing with all the myths of EVs?

There sure are many more myths than those covered by Business insider (see the link), like EVs are just as bad as ICE cars for CO2 emissions when the power comes from coal. People seem to forget the energy needed to get oil up off the ground, transport it, enrich it to petrol or diesel, and then distribute it to petrol stations.

In addition the electric motor is several magnitudes more energy efficient than an ICE motor.

The US department of energy has a great resource if you want to check out CO2 emissions for EVs vs Hybrids and ICEs.

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#1696239 29-Dec-2016 17:57

What happens to a battery pack in a major crash? Say a t-bone?

I know what happens when you puncture a LiPo or Li-Ion... It's not pretty. It becomes a serious HazChem issue.

A few years ago my uncles Prius was written off after a minor incident due to battery issues. I wonder what happened to it after...

KiwiME

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#1696427 30-Dec-2016 09:21

blakamin:

What happens to a battery pack in a major crash? Say a t-bone?

I know what happens when you puncture a LiPo or Li-Ion... It's not pretty. It becomes a serious HazChem issue.

A few years ago my uncles Prius was written off after a minor incident due to battery issues. I wonder what happened to it after...

Toyota long ago provided documentation for emergency services regarding the Prius. Plus the engineers consider accident scenarios during the design.

I wrote a letter to the Chch's The Press in 1979 with the same question regarding LPG and CNG cars and no major issues materialised in later decades.

In the end the carbon emissions issue is the bigger fish to fry and we owe it to future generations to make some compromises.

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#1696446 30-Dec-2016 11:12

tdgeek:

Why on earth are there hybrids?? The car now weighs more, less range. Costs more as EV plus all the same engine and drive train. EV is getting good, so make it low weight and low running costs, and kick the 4 strpoke to touch. We use our car mainly around town, EV would be perfect, and if it can cater for rural so much the better. I guess an "external battery pack" for extra range not really an option due to size and weight?

Good question.

From what I have been able to gather, hybrids do reduce fuel consumption, so the Prius and others were very popular on both cost grounds and for environmental reasons. You retain petrol-car range, but do it more cheaply by chipping away at the low-speed inefficient use of petrol by using electricity instead. Also battery tech wasn't as advanced 10 years ago as it is now....and I think we have laptops and cell phones to thank for that change as people demanded more power and longer battery life for their mobile devices. Plus batteries were really expensive.

From a maintenance point of view, the pure BEV's (battery electric vehicles) are cheaper to make - fewer parts - and much more reliable (fewer parts again).

Some of the recent developments in gel-embedded nano-tube batteries that can be fully charged in seconds and show little loss of power across 300,000 cycles (equivalent to almost 80 years of daily, FULL, EV battery charges if the materials in the batteries can survive that long) will be complete game changers in the years ahead if they can be mass produced and be reliable. Even if they aren't reliable and only last 3- 5 years, they may be so cheap it won't matter. At some point it looks like all these curves are going to converge: fast, cheap and very powerful. I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years there won't be a car battery (usable in any context, not just cars) that can store 100's of kWh, be charged in a few minutes and last 50 years....and be about the size of a mid-sized suitcase......for $1000.

Petrol will be dead. Too dirty and far too expensive.

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