Skidding downhill on black ice: survival tactics

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#1825534 19-Jul-2017 21:37

Easy. All Jap car importers have loads of winter tyres (they come with a snow flake symbol) and they have no idea what to do with them.

wellygary

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#1825538 19-Jul-2017 21:51

Batman:
Easy. All Jap car importers have loads of winter tyres (they come with a snow flake symbol) and they have no idea what to do with them.

Yeah, but the reason they make their way down here is that they have been used for two to three winters and have become hard, they are not gonna be anywhere near what they would be new.

To the OP , once you are sliding on black ice it's a one way trip Unless you can find a section with some snow or gritt with some traction you are gonna go where momentum takes you...

frankv

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#1825674 20-Jul-2017 09:32

What everyone else said about black ice == everyone is a passenger. But maybe you're lucky and there's an area of gravel or whatever along the side of the road that isn't iced up, so you might get some traction as you start to leave the seal. On a downhill slope you probably have too much momentum to control it in that space, especially in a big heavy vehicle. My only advice would be to sit it out on the ice, and when you feel the gravel attempt to brake.

I do wonder if there's some kind of misconception that 4WD makes it OK to drive on icy roads? Whilst 4WD is certainly better than 2WD, it's not a panacea for all road conditions. When you have all 4 wheels on a patch of ice, you still won't have any traction. So, really, the answer to this question is that you should have put chains on your tyres (or studded/winter tyres on your car) before you got to the black ice. I know that's easy to say with hindsight, and it's not necessarily practical to put chains on every time you suspect there might be ice around. Of course, chains aren't a panacea either.

And of course go a *whole* lot slower when you suspect ice. There's nothing wrong with walking pace.

"Superior drivers use their superior judgement to avoid having to use their superior skills."

Batman

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#1825799 20-Jul-2017 12:01

wellygary:
Batman:
Easy. All Jap car importers have loads of winter tyres (they come with a snow flake symbol) and they have no idea what to do with them.

Yeah, but the reason they make their way down here is that they have been used for two to three winters and have become hard, they are not gonna be anywhere near what they would be new.

To the OP , once you are sliding on black ice it's a one way trip Unless you can find a section with some snow or gritt with some traction you are gonna go where momentum takes you...

It depends, i went to the car yard yesterday to squeeze some snow tyres(went there for a different reason). Found one set of 4 - near new condition pirellis perfect for my car. But the days where it's under 7C ... You can probably count with one hand. Sigh.

Rikkitic

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#1825845 20-Jul-2017 12:52

Glad you all got out ok. The other comments here say it all. Once you start sliding you have no more control. All you can do is hang on for the ride and look ahead for any possible traction opportunities and to prepare for whatever is going to happen. Sounds to me like you came out of it the best you could.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeAqua

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#1825847 20-Jul-2017 13:00

Everyone is OK so don't beat yourself up too much we all make mistakes driving. It's called black ice because it's hard to see. I see people belting along oblivious to ice every winter between Nelson and Blenheim. I've pulled some of them out of the ditch too.

Where black ice is possible (indicated by outside temps and/or frost/icicles/ice on the roadside);

1) Have the stability control turned off - it applies the brakes which won't help;

2) Slow down well before corners, using gears not brakes, corner gradually, no sudden moves;

3) Don't let the car choose it's own gear, drive it in sports mode if available or manually select the gears.

With the approach speed described I don't think many drivers could have saved it once it started to go.

As a desperation tactic you could: Use the handbrake to lock the back wheels, while subsequently applying power and pointing the wheels where you want to go. When (if) you are pointing the right way dump the handbrake, straighten the wheels and keep the power on until you are out of the slide.

But ... that's rally-driver stuff, most people wouldn't pull it off in an unanticipated situation (I sure couldn't) and it probably wouldn't work unless you had a very aggressive tread pattern.

Mike

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#1826042 20-Jul-2017 17:30

Stayed in bed

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mattwnz

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#1826052 20-Jul-2017 17:41

Maybe the council should be applying ice on days/nights that are frosty. I have noticed my council doing this a lot recently.

The other thing is perhaps to buy a more modern vehicle that has stability control built in. That is one reason I try to only drive vehicles that are less than 10 years old with good safety ratings, so you know it is. Most within the last 10 years should now have test extra safety features built in.

gzt

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#1826115 20-Jul-2017 19:16

MikeAqua:
But ... that's rally-driver stuff, most people wouldn't pull it off in an unanticipated situation (I sure couldn't) and it probably wouldn't work unless you had a very aggressive tread pattern.

and then possibly the same end result at a higher speed and impact.

pom532

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#1826160 20-Jul-2017 20:00

Always look out for a flashing blue light on the road. Some places have the flashing blue cat eye that indicate icy conditions.

mattwnz

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#1826161 20-Jul-2017 20:02

pom532:

Always look out for a flashing blue light on the road. Some places have the flashing blue cat eye that indicate icy conditions.

I didn't know they were for ice. Pity there isn't much driver education on that sort of thing, as I don't think many people know that. Wasn't in the road code when I got my license.

Batman

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#1826163 20-Jul-2017 20:06

I wouldn't turn off the stability control for black ice. THat is crazy.

Turn off TRACTION control if you are going to driving in snow (very slowly) or mud. Maybe loose gravel. But never turn off stability control. Unless you are Fernando Alonso or some Finnish rally driver, but I gather he doesn't frequent this forum.

[Anyway, most stability control will not act within a certain skid limit, but each is different. And my subaru -you cannot turn off stability control, only traction control]

Ge0rge

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#1826165 20-Jul-2017 20:19

pom532:
Always look out for a flashing blue light on the road. Some places have the flashing blue cat eye that indicate icy conditions.

Lots of government facilities have installed cats eyes that flash blue in freezing conditions. However be aware that there are also blue ones in the centre of the road that don't flash - they indicate a fire hydrant :)

mudguard

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#1826186 20-Jul-2017 21:04

Nothing you can do. So don't sweat it. Once it's gone it's gone. However I do wonder how a heavy vehicle (a Prado) vs a lighter vehicle (Corolla) well updated hang on in those situations, would a lighter car breakaway more or less easily?
But the point is moot and you're OK so that's the main thing.
Electronic aids are brilliant most of the time however for one corner stretch of maybe 20 metres you're never going to switch it off, and how many cars let you anyway?

mattwnz

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#1826187 20-Jul-2017 21:08

Batman:

I wouldn't turn off the stability control for black ice. THat is crazy.

Turn off TRACTION control if you are going to driving in snow (very slowly) or mud. Maybe loose gravel. But never turn off stability control. Unless you are Fernando Alonso or some Finnish rally driver, but I gather he doesn't frequent this forum.

[Anyway, most stability control will not act within a certain skid limit, but each is different. And my subaru -you cannot turn off stability control, only traction control]

I wonder if insurance companies would also check the cars computer logs to see if it has been switched off or not. Potentially it could be an out for them, in paying a claim, if they consider that switching it off is reckless. It is all very subjective.

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