Things to know before buying Used Hybrid Vehicle

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#2089995 13-Sep-2018 13:25

Dingbatt: It would pay to research what sort of hybrid you are getting. The are plenty of YouTube videos explaining the different types.

For instance, i think the Honda you referenced uses an electric 'boost' motor which means the ICE runs all the time and the electric motor just provides more power when required. Therefore allowing a smaller capacity ICE to be fitted. However the Honda Accord recently released in the USA uses electric motors for all its motive power and the ICE is only to charge the battery. A bit like the Chev Volt and BMW i3, but not available here.

The Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system will use the electric motor where it can, which is normally at low speed. At higher speeds or if the battery is depleted the ICE runs to provide motive power and recharge the battery. Because of the eCVT transmission the ICE runs at optimum efficiency. The Synergy drive is patented technology and only available on Toyotas and Lexus'. In all but the plugin Prius all the energy to power the vehicle comes from the petrol tank.
Other brands offering hybrid now I'm less familiar with, but all seem to drive through a 'conventional' gearbox (usually CVT or Dual Clutch).
The big difference in cost is generally the amount of battery onboard. I would be wary of buying something that didn't have plenty of the same model operating here, otherwise if you do have battery problems, you run the risk of the replacement being expensive or even impossible.
I have a Camry Hybrid and won't be buying another pure ICE, it will either be hybrid or electric from here on. At $1.50 a litre the cost difference takes a long time to pay back, but at $5 a litre, not long at all.

I wouldn't buy a hybrid at all.

A Plug-in hybrid on the other hand...

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2090096 13-Sep-2018 14:26

Keep in mind that fit from Buy Right Cars is going to have a Japanese radio unit in it, which may need to be replaced for a NZ unit

How about a NZ new Jazz, for a little bit more coin?

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/honda/auction-1761240538.htm?rsqid=d3d3c36fffb2441c947f07362335c4e0

Looks to be a good spec too.

RUKI

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#2090884 14-Sep-2018 19:54

I was told by peer battery re-builders from overseas who have imported Mazda Hybrid Battery from Japan: Mazda is using Toyota Hybrid system in their hybrids and the same battery modules (prismatic NP2 7.2V).

I saw hybrid Mazda in the car yard in Auckland recently. Aware of 2 dealers who imported those from Japan. Conversion of Mazda Infotainment System from Japanese to English plus navigation to New Zealand standards including Android Auto and Apple Carplay plus New Zealand Radio - not a problem. Can help with that.

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tdgeek

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#2090894 14-Sep-2018 20:29

alasta:

What is your reason for wanting to buy a hybrid? I would have thought that operating costs would be the main motivation, but buying an older vehicle from a cowboy importer will increase your TCO enough to offset the benefit of the powertrain. If you are on a tight budget then you would be better to keep it simple and get a legit Suzuki Swift or similar.

Agree, and dont hybrids have a pretty small battery and range? As in a token gesture?

The petrol side has to carry an EV motor and batteries, the EV side has to cart around an ICE and fuel.

Scott3

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#2090922 14-Sep-2018 22:20

tdgeek:

Agree, and dont hybrids have a pretty small battery and range? As in a token gesture?

The petrol side has to carry an EV motor and batteries, the EV side has to cart around an ICE and fuel.

The hybrids being discussed here are largely not plug in models.

As such, the battery size, and EV range, are not especially important for the end user. Many older hybrids like mine don't even have a button for EV mode.

The non-plug in hybrids are essentially a clever hack to get more efficiency out of a petrol engine. They (especially the Toyota ones are very successful at that).

In short, consumer demand cars with high peak power. Hybrid cars use electric motors to fill in power for shorter duration's, meaning they can get away with an engine with less peak power. This allows things like the more efficient, less powerful Atkinson cycle engine, engine downsizing etc. Being able to regenerate under breaking, and to shut off the engine while driving also make hybrid cars more efficient. Yes, the hybrids weigh more than comparable cars, but even with this penalty, they still outperform non-hybrids when it comes to economy, especially in the city.

RUKI

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#2091118 15-Sep-2018 15:30

I saw recently a joke (Toyota headquarters, senior meeting):

- Mr. Toyoda, some very advance Geeks want to be able to charge their hybrid,

- But that makes no sense,

- I know. But marketing department suggests that could increase sales by 40%,

- Let's do it.

:-)

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mdav056

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#2091175 15-Sep-2018 17:57

LostBoyNZ:

I'd get about 4 litres per 100km if I didn't drive about half the time on a motorway. So for me, the main advantage is the fuel economy. But if you drive 99% of the time on 100km/h roads, you won't get the same economy, because you'll never be driving on pure electric mode.

Try using the Auckland motorways...

gml

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mdav056

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#2091177 15-Sep-2018 18:04

RUKI:

mdav056:

Best of all worlds might be a Signature Class Prius PHV -- 3 year warranty, a little more pricey, but probably worth it.

PHV uses Li batteries - if battery fails - currently no option but official dealership

Oh, I didn't know that. I'd never want to go to the official dealership -- once I took my Prius there with a problem, and they said $5K for a new battery. Then another dealership, which knew about Priuses, squirted something into the carb, fixed the problem, and charged me $0.50.

RUKI, do you expect this LI battery situation to change soon?

gml

RUKI

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#2092126 17-Sep-2018 18:50

mdav056:

... do you expect this LI battery situation to change soon?

I hope so. At some stage I was looking at newer Prius (also use Li) and Prime (also Li).

If the battery can be brought easily from Japan then it would be a game changer. One guy who were bringing hybrid batteries before is trying to source Li packs from new Toyota wrecks - just for testing purposes but have not managed to get any yet.

I would be interested myself to get wrecked PHV if I can source one cheaply for testing electronic side of it ...

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RUKI

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#2093385 19-Sep-2018 18:53

Tested couple of 2004 Prius Packs @7A load. Those are imported from Japan. Tested remaining capacity at around 77% from design capacity. 2004 was a year when NHW-20 Prius model was introduced and shift from NP1 to NP2 modules. Those are still used in Prius ZVW-30, Aqua (Prius C), Camry Hybrid and number of Lexus models making them all interchangeable. e.g. Aqua - 20 modules, Prius - 28, Camry - 34.

14 year old NiMH modules still in excellent condition! Age did not kill those. Perhaps mileage was very low.

It is number of charge-discharge cycles which degrade them.

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mdav056

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#2093518 19-Sep-2018 22:19

RUKI:

It is number of charge-discharge cycles which degrade them.

I notice that my Gen 3 Prius (2010) starts most days by doing a discharge down to the purple before recharging -- I had assumed this was by design, but if the battery is degraded by the number of charge-discharge cycles, this worries me...

gml

RUKI

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#2094994 22-Sep-2018 17:22

mdav056:

.....I notice that my Gen 3 Prius (2010) starts most days by doing a discharge down to the purple before recharging ...

Advice (assuming yours is ZVW-30) - do yourself a favor and clean the battery ventilation fan. Those are becoming clogged and stop doing their job. That is a known design issue with that model and if not cleaned (especially if there are pets in car) - the heat building in the middle of the pack may kill the battery prematurely.

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mdav056

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#2095015 22-Sep-2018 19:38

RUKI:

Advice (assuming yours is ZVW-30) - do yourself a favor and clean the battery ventilation fan. Those are becoming clogged and stop doing their job. That is a known design issue with that model and if not cleaned (especially if there are pets in car) - the heat building in the middle of the pack may kill the battery prematurely.

Thanks, RUKI, dog, so will do!

gml

Clawhammer

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#2096536 26-Sep-2018 08:49

I would be interested to know how much difference using the A/C or heater on makes to how many kms E.Vs will go.
In a hybrid heat will be free if the engine is running and running the A/C will effectively come from the ICE power. In a pure EV there is only one source of power so this must affect Km capacity.

tdgeek

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#2096539 26-Sep-2018 08:54

Clawhammer: I would be interested to know how much difference using the A/C or heater on makes to how many kms E.Vs will go.
In a hybrid heat will be free if the engine is running and running the A/C will effectively come from the ICE power. In a pure EV there is only one source of power so this must affect Km capacity.

A/C in an ICE also reduces range. Maybe its similar or maybe its more km, unsure on that. Either way it takes energy to run so reduces range for both

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