Europe to restrict vehicle speed automatically

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Mad Scientist
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#2205854 27-Mar-2019 19:43

Newest way to kidnap (or steal or hijack) -

1 - use a car without the speed limiter to hunt

2 - find a way to hack the cars and make them stop, then just walk over and collect your stuff

Geektastic

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#2205913 27-Mar-2019 21:50

l43a2:
this idea is shortsighted and stupid.

Doesn't alter the fact that it's happening. The EU isn't unfamiliar with shortsighted and stupid!

vexxxboy

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#2205998 27-Mar-2019 22:51

i read some where that speed, as the only reason for fatal crashes, is about 8% of all road deaths, stupidity and inexperience of drivers are the main causes.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Geektastic

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#2206009 28-Mar-2019 00:00

vexxxboy:

i read some where that speed, as the only reason for fatal crashes, is about 8% of all road deaths, stupidity and inexperience of drivers are the main causes.

Which is why they are not simply dealing with speed.

"Other measures include technology that detects when drivers are losing concentration or falling asleep, a system that keeps cars in the centre of lanes and accident black boxes that record vehicle movements.

All cars will also be fitted with automatic emergency braking, which brings vehicles to a stop when pedestrians step into the road or a car ahead suddenly slams on the brakes."

You can bet your bottom dollar that the insurance companies (which remember is compulsory in Europe) will be rubbing their hands together about the black boxes (no, I do not know if they are actually black...) because when you have an accident and say "Oh yes, I saw him and stood hard on the brakes" they will be able to say "No you did not - the brakes were not even touched until you had already hit him so we are not paying." etc etc.

Aredwood

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#2206014 28-Mar-2019 01:50

Lots of unintended consequences will happen as a result of this. Want to change lanes or pull out of a side street into heavy traffic? No need to wait for a gap. The automatic emergency brakes on the other cars will make a gap for you.

Getting annoyed by tailgaters? Install a radar cheat system, that will fool the automatic emergency brakes to be applied in the tailgating car.

A black market in cheater boxes for the accident black boxes will develop. Same with GPS cheat systems. As the GPS signals don't have any digital signatures. So a cheat box could be inserted between the aerial and GPS reciever. Which would send fake GPS signals to the reciever.

There would also need to be a system to quickly distribute firmware updates to all cars. To update the database of what speed limits apply to all roads. Such a system would need to be secure. Otherwise people will just edit the list, to say that every road has a 150KM/Hr speed limit. But good luck trying to keep such systems secure. When the hackers have full physical access. And where the private encryption keys also have to be stored somewhere in the same physical system that the hackers have full physical access to.

Any security will get broken just as fast as the DRM on DVDs and Bluray discs.

Aredwood

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#2206027 28-Mar-2019 02:46

And what about long term software updates? Plenty of cars still on the roads that are over 25 years old. Will updates still be available for these cars that will be released soon, when those cars themselves become 25+ years old? As that will be the equivalent of Microsoft providing updates to Windows 3.1 and MSDos 6.0 And yet car companies (so far) are far far worse than Microsoft at supplying software updates.

Also how to avoid any OTA update system from being misused to carry out denial of service attacks on cars? I'm sure that EV owners would love to have a Cheat box, that performs DOS attacks on all ICE cars that they happen to drive past.

old3eyes

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#2206065 28-Mar-2019 08:34

Aredwood: And what about long term software updates? Plenty of cars still on the roads that are over 25 years old. Will updates still be available for these cars that will be released soon, when those cars themselves become 25+ years old? As that will be the equivalent of Microsoft providing updates to Windows 3.1 and MSDos 6.0 And yet car companies (so far) are far far worse than Microsoft at supplying software updates.

Also how to avoid any OTA update system from being misused to carry out denial of service attacks on cars? I'm sure that EV owners would love to have a Cheat box, that performs DOS attacks on all ICE cars that they happen to drive past.

The next EU mandate will be that all cars have to be replaced every 4 years to keep the software up to date.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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trig42

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#2206086 28-Mar-2019 09:07

There are already cars that pretty much do this.

When we had a Peugeot 3008 in Europe last year, it knew all the speed limits of the roads we were on (including through road works). If I was using Cruise Control, it would slow down and speed up accordingly. It was reading the signs (and maybe using GPS, but it was reading signs at Road Works). It had lane keep assist, where it would steer back into the middle of the lane, it also knew if my hands weren't on the wheel and it reminded me after x hours of driving that I should take a break.

I now have the base spec Kia Sportage here, it has Lane Keep Assist, driver attention warnings, automatic braking as standard. Adding GPS/Camera based speed limits is a good thing IMO.

Geektastic

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#2206100 28-Mar-2019 09:25

To give you an idea of the difference in enforcement attitudes there compared to here, which will carry over into any method of cheating this proposal, this is a report relating to the equivalent of unpaid Rego fees in the UK:

"Figures published today by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) show that almost 133,000 cars, vans and trucks were immobilised or impounded last year because of non-payment of road tax."

I suspect anyone caught with equipment to circumvent the rules would find at least some or all of

Huge fine
Invalid insurance
Invalid warranty on vehicle
Impound and crushing of vehicle
Prison term

Bung

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#2206104 28-Mar-2019 09:31

Eventually there will be enough autonomous vehicles all travelling at the same speed to form mobile road blocks. You will be forced to conform.

I think control like a circuit breaker might be ok. Up to the limit no control, slightly over control after a time determined by speed and well over the limit rewarded by a timeout.

Geektastic

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#2206131 28-Mar-2019 10:34

Bung: Eventually there will be enough autonomous vehicles all travelling at the same speed to form mobile road blocks. You will be forced to conform.

I think control like a circuit breaker might be ok. Up to the limit no control, slightly over control after a time determined by speed and well over the limit rewarded by a timeout.

Sadly, with so much computer involvement in cars now, conformity won't be optional.

For example, hardly impossible to imagine a scenario where the car can tell if the system is working or not and simply won't function if it isn't? Or where NPR cameras determine that the car was speeding and communicate with the car and tell it not to start next time the key is turned, with a message requiring an inspection before the car is re-enabled.

Also of course over time conformity will come in the form of no new car being sold without the systems...

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2206136 28-Mar-2019 10:39

Next the EU will be imposing the now abolished Japanese engine performance ceiling!

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/04/13/travel/why-japan-finally-got-its-foot-off-the-brake/#.XJvoRVUzaUk

All seems a little bit silly to me.

Does that now mean all future models will have some sort of GPS SatNav? Most do now, but not all.

What happens when in a tunnel?

trig42

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#2206139 28-Mar-2019 10:42

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Next the EU will be imposing the now abolished Japanese engine performance ceiling!

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/04/13/travel/why-japan-finally-got-its-foot-off-the-brake/#.XJvoRVUzaUk

All seems a little bit silly to me.

Does that now mean all future models will have some sort of GPS SatNav? Most do now, but not all.

What happens when in a tunnel?

They will use cameras to read speed limit signs. They are doing that now. The speed limit you are operating under will stay the same until the car sees a sign that changes it. I guess GPS will augment it, but it will be mostly on signs.

tehgerbil

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#2206141 28-Mar-2019 10:45

This is like an insurers wet dream - a device in your vehicle which can be used to second guess your every action and held against you in an accident..

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2206146 28-Mar-2019 10:56

trig42:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Next the EU will be imposing the now abolished Japanese engine performance ceiling!

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/04/13/travel/why-japan-finally-got-its-foot-off-the-brake/#.XJvoRVUzaUk

All seems a little bit silly to me.

Does that now mean all future models will have some sort of GPS SatNav? Most do now, but not all.

What happens when in a tunnel?

They will use cameras to read speed limit signs. They are doing that now. The speed limit you are operating under will stay the same until the car sees a sign that changes it. I guess GPS will augment it, but it will be mostly on signs.

Do they use camera's or is it in the GPS SatNav\Map metadata? E.g. I can be sitting on the bus using waze and it knows the speed limit of the stretch of road.

Or is it a combination of both?

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