Owning a more expensive car

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Hmm, what to write...
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#2661084 22-Feb-2021 12:37

1024kb:

If you had the option to simply push that button & be there in a flash, where would you prefer to drive to?

It is not the destination, its the journey. I don't want to push a button to go around the nurburgring. I want to drive around it. I'd push a button to get there though

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#2661085 22-Feb-2021 12:39

Benjip:

1024kb: Nobody actually wants to own a car. It’s transport we want - if you could push a button on your watch & be where you want to be instantly, nobody would even consider owning a car. As yet, that push button tech doesn’t exist so we use other, more primitive methods of transportation.

Speak for yourself! Some of us truly enjoy driving.

Forgetting the current COVID situation its one of the worst things for me about living in London. There is zero point in owning a car. If you do it's going to cost you a fortune in parking/congestion charge/insurance and just be stuck in endless traffic anyway. As much as Londoners love to moan the TFL network is really good, but I really miss the freedom a car offers.

Scott3

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#2661087 22-Feb-2021 12:40

jonb: I've always viewed cars as a depreciating asset, to spend as little as possible. Practically that has meant buying a sub 10k car and using it for like 8yrs until the cost of maintenance starts becoming a significant cost. First car in NZ was a 1999 Mazda Demio in 2008, sold for scrap in 2018. Current car a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe, which also seems to be on the same path of lifecycle.
Aware can buy something like a Landrover that holds its value in theory. How do you run the sums in your head to have like a 30k vehicle? Living in S Island getting a bit of 4x4 envy..

Instead of having spending as little as possible to minimise depreciation, you should be looking at total cost of ownership. Should note in general utes & low range 4x4's depreciate less than other vehicle classes.

In the case of many off road style SUV's and utes, because of very high prices in the used market it is sometimes a better deal to buy a new or fairly new vehicle (assuming you can fund it) from a total cost of ownership to value delivered perspective.

Basically you have the choice of an older (but still relatively expensive vehicle) that is near to the bottom of it's depreciation curve, but will have higher fuel, maintenance & repair costs, or a newer one with more depreciation, but easier on fuel & repairs.

Next thing is to consider your motoring as an expense. You may well be willing to pay more to have the car you want, rather than the car that delivers the lowest total cost of ownership while meeting your basic transport needs. Perhaps you also choose to pay extra for other products that you prefer over the most basic versions (i.e. dewalt rather than ozito power tools, watties rather than budget pasta sauce).

Note that Covid-19 has significantly impacted the market for nicer lifestyle toys in both NZ and Aus. A lot of cashed up people are using their usual overseas holiday spend on Toys that they can use locally (off road & touring SUV's, Camper-vans, Caravans, Boats etc.). In addition covid-19 related supply chain issues (oddly the availability of computer chip) in impacting the supply of new vehicles. Obviously limited international air travel means lower oil prices, and fairly cheap fuel, so people are also less concerned about the fuel costs of larger vehicles.

In terms of new vehicles, Stuff like the Suzuki Jimny has a wait list, While the likes of the 200 series land cruiser has completly sold out with no additional stock expected until the 300 series is released in several months time.

In terms of used vehicles from japan, I get the impression less are arriving than normal. some used car lots have been looking fairly empty compaired to pre covid 19.

In terms of used vehicle's in NZ, some of the more desirable 4x4's are currently commanding silly money. As example

A 2019 jimny Sierra with 12,000km and a starting price of $32k. Only mods are a A/T tire swap, roof rack and bike rack. 54 people have this on their watch-list. Same car new is $30k+ORC. Mods are worth cira $2-3k. So minimal depreciation on this.
Basically any landcruiser 70. There is a 2011 single cab with 126,300km, with the only mods being a deck and tire swap. Asking $69,950. 91 people in the watchlist. Brand new of the same is $77k. Mods are probable worth $4-5k. So only cura $11k depreciation for 10 years running.

I don't know of your financial situation, but if you can fund it, something like a new toyota fortuner (basically hilux SUV) for $57 -$60k depending on trim, would seem a better deal than buying a used one. Cheapest used one on trademe is a 2016 with 206,229km asking $35k, and it is the base GX trim (no longer offered new).

Frankly it seems a really great deal spending an extra $22k to get a brand new one with a warrenty etc, higher trim level, facelift, increased (2.8T to 3.1T) tow rating, more powerful engine (130kW vs 150kW, and 50Nm more torque) and reduced fuel consumption (8.6 -> 7.6 L/100km).

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#2661088 22-Feb-2021 12:44

jonb: Thanks, I don't drive everyday for work but when do at the weekends or evening is often as an enabler of another activity. In theory would like to drive off the beaten track occasionally in something like a Jimny, for me probably makes sense to get an older one, as 30k new can get a lot of a different used car (like a 2012 FJ cruiser for mid life crisis/Hilux). For the land rover was thinking the 2000 era is holding value, but not being mechanically minded probably a bad idea.
Sort of have the money in the sense of should really be renovating bathroom instead.

What do you call off the beaten track? Are you talking about dirt roads, or proper 4WD tracks?

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#2661100 22-Feb-2021 13:17

jonb: Thanks, I don't drive everyday for work but when do at the weekends or evening is often as an enabler of another activity. In theory would like to drive off the beaten track occasionally in something like a Jimny, for me probably makes sense to get an older one, as 30k new can get a lot of a different used car (like a 2012 FJ cruiser for mid life crisis/Hilux). For the land rover was thinking the 2000 era is holding value, but not being mechanically minded probably a bad idea.
Sort of have the money in the sense of should really be renovating bathroom instead.

The FJ is a pritty desirable vehicle, as long as the second row isn't going to get very much use.

It's on the same platform as the Prado, but being a little smaller, and a little lighter with a shorter wheelbase will be better off road. Also it is has really nice styling and is discontinued, so likely has a bit of an enthusiast following. Apparently visiablity sucks, and they are thirsty, but otherwise a nice vehicle.

Chepest on trademe is a 2011 asking $33k

They are cheaper relative to the caliber of vehicle for a few reasons:

Many people looking for a larger SUV want a proper 4 door.
Lesser tow ratings than Prado, Fortuner etc.
Available as a used import from japan (all the ones with the extra mirror on the frount left will be ex japan).
Only availiable in NZ a v6 petrol. Engine is smooth, powerfull & reliable, but is rated (2011 year) at 11.4L/100km of 95RON petrol. Apparently in the real world this can end up as 15-16 L/100km if you don't go gentle on it.
NZ has better platforms for those who want to extensively modify the vehicle (GU patrol, Landcruiser 70 series etc).

It is fairly apparent that the FJ was devolved for the US market, where large displacement petrol engines are preferred, along with soft suspension and the likes. The likes of the 70 series can't be sold in that market, so it is appealing for the enthusiast market.

General advice is to avoid old landrovers unless you are a proper enthusiast.

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#2661101 22-Feb-2021 13:28

Handsomedan:

alasta:

New Zealanders seem to have a weird obsession with vehicle depreciation, and indifference towards other operating costs. A new vehicle might lose a huge amount of value when you drive it out of the showroom but if you average the deprecation over five years then it's not that scary. In contrast old high mileage cars cost a fortune in maintenance, so there goes your depreciation saving.

If minimising TCO is your objective then buy a low mileage Japanese or Korean car second hand but less than a couple of years old. Do not buy a Land Rover.

This is absolutely correct.

I own a 15 year old Euro wagon. It's safe, practical and nice to drive.

It costs me (on a good year) around $1000 a year to maintain. ON a bad year - upwards of $3-4k. Right now it's booked in for its latest $2k fix. It now owes me too much to be practical to sell and upgrade. But I love it. It's now done 150,000kms. This latest fix should see it running for at least another 50k km, if I continue to keep it regularly maintained.

It was a $120k car new - I got it when it was only 7 years old and it cost me $15k. You do the math.

A new car at the time I bought this, from a Japanese manufacturer, with similar specs may have cost me around $45-50k.

By now I would have just about broken even. But I enjoy this car - I may not have enjoyed the more modern Japanese car.

YMMV.

lemme guess - either Audi 4/6 or BMW 3/5 ....

i have a Jap born in 2007 - costs nothing in mechanical repairs (electrics seat is giving issues!), over 200,000 ks. put petrol and it goes.

have a jap born in 2012 - costs nothing in repairs, though a blown HID bulb did cost $500 - you don't want to know. 70,000+ks.

meanwhile colleague had new holden astra that spent more time at the mechanic than he had it and he traded it for a mazda.

Land Rovers are just bad but hey that doesn't seem to stop people buying them.

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#2661103 22-Feb-2021 13:31

1024kb: Nobody actually wants to own a car. It’s transport we want - if you could push a button on your watch & be where you want to be instantly, nobody would even consider owning a car.

Others have said it already, but that's not even close to being true. Yes, most people own a car for transport purposes. Some people own a car (or also own a car) for enjoyment.

I mean, we have planes and can fly places a lot faster than we can boat to them, but seems to be plenty of people who still want to float around the water.

Essentially, different people have different purposes, requirements, and priorities.

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fearandloathing

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#2661112 22-Feb-2021 14:19

IMHO a car costs you $2000 a year on average in depreciation or maintenance.

mattwnz

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#2661155 22-Feb-2021 15:34

Scott3:

Note that Covid-19 has significantly impacted the market for nicer lifestyle toys in both NZ and Aus. A lot of cashed up people are using their usual overseas holiday spend on Toys that they can use locally (off road & touring SUV's, Camper-vans, Caravans, Boats etc.). In addition covid-19 related supply chain issues (oddly the availability of computer chip) in impacting the supply of new vehicles. Obviously limited international air travel means lower oil prices, and fairly cheap fuel, so people are also less concerned about the fuel costs of larger vehicles.

It isn't just that. As house prices have gone up so much, people both feel richer, and some can use that new equity to borrow more. But it could just be an economic cycle. I remember when dairy farms were the big thing about 15 years ago, when we had our big dairy boom, and everyone wanted to get into dairy or milking. So the price of farms were rocketing up, but I have heard that prices have flatlined for the last decade.

The other big thing at the moment are ebikes, and the price of many of those in NZ seem to be the price of a small second hand car. But we do seem to pay a lot more in NZ for this type of thing.

Handsomedan

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#2661161 22-Feb-2021 15:45

Batman:

lemme guess - either Audi 4/6 or BMW 3/5 ....

Nope.

It's the pride of Sweden...Volvo XC70. It's just come up for a second Cambelt (which is what it's booked in for) and it's leaking oil at present, but the main thing with this has been the brakes and tyres...heavy on both (more likely to be the way it's driven than anything else).

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Geektastic

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#2661190 22-Feb-2021 16:41

jonb: I've always viewed cars as a depreciating asset, to spend as little as possible. Practically that has meant buying a sub 10k car and using it for like 8yrs until the cost of maintenance starts becoming a significant cost. First car in NZ was a 1999 Mazda Demio in 2008, sold for scrap in 2018. Current car a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe, which also seems to be on the same path of lifecycle.
Aware can buy something like a Landrover that holds its value in theory. How do you run the sums in your head to have like a 30k vehicle? Living in S Island getting a bit of 4x4 envy..

I tend to buy what I want to drive. The depreciation etc is different as I’m running the car through the company so in one sense more is better.

I’ve owned 9 Land Rovers. Here in NZ they’re an expensive hobby because the parts are significantly more expensive.

I’d buy a Land Cruiser 100 series VX.

MikeB4

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#2661191 22-Feb-2021 16:43

Price does not equal quality and durability. I have owned new cars most of my adult life. For me price does not play a big role. I have owned Suzuki Swifts, numerous Holden including high end, Toyotas and two dreadful excursions into European manufactures. I buy which I like at the time of buying but exclude European, US and UK makers

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#2661212 22-Feb-2021 17:38

Handsomedan:

It's the pride of Sweden...Volvo XC70. It's just come up for a second Cambelt (which is what it's booked in for) and it's leaking oil at present, but the main thing with this has been the brakes and tyres...heavy on both (more likely to be the way it's driven than anything else).

Shouldn't that be third cambelt replacement? Or does is it chain driven that can go ages or something?

Obraik

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#2661892 23-Feb-2021 16:55

My current car, a Tesla Model 3 (Long Range Performance) is my first new car I've owned and obviously, the most expensive. Prior cars were already 10 years old when I bought them and under $20k. Being in my early 30s, I feel like I'm often quietly questioned by others as to why I spent so much on a car at a younger age - it seems like the social expectation is that you don't get a new car until you're in your late 40s/50s.

However, my outlook is why wait until I'm old to buy things that I enjoy. As long as I'm not being reckless with my money to the point that I'm financially struggling then I'd rather enjoy my drive to my 8:30-5x5+ job and weekend activities. On top of that, I also wanted an EV that was fun with decent range and the only real way to do that at the moment is to buy new.

I don't really concern myself with the depreciation aspect. While depreciation on the Model 3 in NZ isn't really a thing at the moment, I'm well aware that won't last forever and eventually it too will be worth a fraction of what I paid for it.

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#2661895 23-Feb-2021 17:10

I love driving. My son plays football all over the country and I drive everywhere to watch him rather than fly.

I don't think I've ever bought a car I didn't think I would enjoy driving and have sold several not long after having bought them because they weren't as engaging as I'd hoped.

BMW's are my poison and I've never had a problem with any of them in over 20 years of owning them. I do however do a massive amount of research before buying anything though.

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