Plans to charge for park-n-ride Wellington

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Plans to charge for park-n-ride Wellington

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1932 posts

Uber Geek

#2678845 22-Mar-2021 22:14

How about downsizing and reducing the number of councils in the wgton region. Nine councils for a low population base is ridiculous

pom532

149 posts

Master Geek

#2678846 22-Mar-2021 22:28

SirHumphreyAppleby:

Rates rise by a few percent each year (above the rate of inflation) alone would more than double rates in less than 20 years. Rates are also tied to property values, which have been increasing at a rapid rate over recent years. For this, we get less and less.

Take more, waste more, provide less, repeat.

Rates are based on relative prices. Your rates should only rise if your area's prices went up faster than the rest of the town/city.

Wheelbarrow01

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#2678884 22-Mar-2021 23:55

sbiddle:

The fact we're looking at probably another 14 months minimum until we have an airport bus service again is just complete and utter craziness.

I was speechless when I got off the plane in Wellington a few weeks ago and couldn't find a bus - just a sign telling me to walk 800 or so metres to the nearest public stop. I used the old airport flyer (or whatever it's called) several times in the past. Not sure whose hare-brained idea it was to kill that off without a suitable replacement!

Wheelbarrow01

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#2678886 23-Mar-2021 00:28

pom532:

SirHumphreyAppleby:

Rates rise by a few percent each year (above the rate of inflation) alone would more than double rates in less than 20 years. Rates are also tied to property values, which have been increasing at a rapid rate over recent years. For this, we get less and less.

Take more, waste more, provide less, repeat.

Rates are based on relative prices. Your rates should only rise if your area's prices went up faster than the rest of the town/city.

Not in Christchurch - our rates are based on the cost of ridiculous vanity projects and cycleways. In the 5 years since I bought my house, my rates have risen by roughly 50%, whilst the GV has gone up from $400k to $475k. I object to paying for the cathedral rebuild, there's a further 5% rate hike mooted for this year, along with new water rates and of course I'm looking forward to paying for the massive new stadium and convention centre when the time comes - god forbid they build something that doesn't run at a huge loss year after year...

The latest plan for a cycleway on Harewood Rd to the airport was met with such vehement public opposition that they've had to go back to the drawing board. It was so over engineered and called for a reduction from 4 vehicle lanes to 2, and the installation of 8 extra sets of traffic lights (over a 2km stretch of road) just so the two-way cycle lanes can zigzag back and forth from one side of the road to the other several times for no apparent reason.

But I digress. It used to be a 20-25 minute bus ride to the CBD from my house. With the new "hub & spoke" bus system, it's now 3 buses and over an hour of my life wasted. Many people in Christchurch find it infuriating and it's certainly done nothing to help get people out of their cars. I can drive to work in 12 minutes and park 5 minutes away from my office for free, so it will be a long time coming before they get me on a bus again.

sbiddle

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#2678925 23-Mar-2021 08:15

Wheelbarrow01:

sbiddle:

The fact we're looking at probably another 14 months minimum until we have an airport bus service again is just complete and utter craziness.

I was speechless when I got off the plane in Wellington a few weeks ago and couldn't find a bus - just a sign telling me to walk 800 or so metres to the nearest public stop. I used the old airport flyer (or whatever it's called) several times in the past. Not sure whose hare-brained idea it was to kill that off without a suitable replacement!

Long story.. The Airport Flyer was a commercial bus service operated by NZ Bus under a contract with the airport that received no subsidy. Up until NZ Bus totally imploded about ~3 years ago when GWRC shafted them in the bus contract changes, it was an amazing service. It had Snapper, and was used by a significant number of people to get between Lower Hutt and Wgtn CBD because the service was every 15 mins and much quicker than the 83 bus that runs every hour or so. I was happy to pay the price premium for the service.

When NZ Bus lost most around 75% of their Wellington business with the changes they basically self imploded. They refused to fund the upgrades to Snapper hardware on the Flyer buses and equipment to stay on the RTI boards. Overnight they started to lose passengers they responded by hiking fares by 66% to get from the Hutt to the Wgtn CBD.

Once the fares went up and you had no idea when a bus was going to arrive even fewer people caught it. Despite the fact a timetable was advertised on their website it never ran to schedule, and at the airport itself for 6+ months there wasn't even a sign or timetable in the bus area. If you didn't know that the bus left from there you'd be none the wiser. I suspect the reason for having no timetable was the fact they had so few drivers after they all quit that they couldn't keep to any sort of schedule, so it was better to just not have a timetable there at all because you could then never be late!

Move forward and the service kept shedding passengers as people simply gave up on it. NZ Bus was then sold and the new owners did nothing to fix any of the problems and simply abandoned Lower Hutt and ran the service from the airport to the railway station due to low passenger numbers and suspended it for a long time due to Covid.

Come November 2020 and NZ Bus decided they were not going to extend their contract with the airport to continue the service. Wellington airport subsequently announced that Transit NZ would take over the service but it would take a few months before they were operational. In Feb GWRC then announced they were going to take over the service and that it would be a subsidised route but that it would be around mid 2022 before it was running again to allow for the route to be put out to tender and a new operator to acquire buses because I think they have to be electric.

Meanwhile the 83 bus that also runs the same route from the Wgtn CBD to Queensgate is often totally chokka and has been for the past ~18 months or so because many of the people who regularly caught the Flyer (myself included) now catch the 83 which can't cope with the extra numbers of people, but GWRC can't easily increase the capacity or frequency of that route and NZ Bus who operate it don't really have any extra buses to operate it.

nitro

658 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2679014 23-Mar-2021 09:42

sbiddle:

Long story.. The Airport Flyer was a commercial bus service operated by NZ Bus under a contract with the airport that received no subsidy.

didn't know the whole story, but also lament the loss of the flyer. it was a useful link between wellington and the hutt.

charging for park and ride is really just pushing people away from public transport. the cost equation becomes:

[pnr parking fee]+[bus/train fare] < [city parking fare]

for most people, it would likely be:

[pnr parking fee]+[bus/train fare]+[extra time spent commuting] < [city parking fare]

jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2679025 23-Mar-2021 09:49

Wheelbarrow01:

Not in Christchurch - our rates are based on the cost of ridiculous vanity projects and cycleways. In the 5 years since I bought my house, my rates have risen by roughly 50%, whilst the GV has gone up from $400k to $475k. I object to paying for the cathedral rebuild, there's a further 5% rate hike mooted for this year, along with new water rates and of course I'm looking forward to paying for the massive new stadium and convention centre when the time comes - god forbid they build something that doesn't run at a huge loss year after year...

The latest plan for a cycleway on Harewood Rd to the airport was met with such vehement public opposition that they've had to go back to the drawing board. It was so over engineered and called for a reduction from 4 vehicle lanes to 2, and the installation of 8 extra sets of traffic lights (over a 2km stretch of road) just so the two-way cycle lanes can zigzag back and forth from one side of the road to the other several times for no apparent reason.

But I digress. It used to be a 20-25 minute bus ride to the CBD from my house. With the new "hub & spoke" bus system, it's now 3 buses and over an hour of my life wasted. Many people in Christchurch find it infuriating and it's certainly done nothing to help get people out of their cars. I can drive to work in 12 minutes and park 5 minutes away from my office for free, so it will be a long time coming before they get me on a bus again.

Rates are based on how much the council wants to collect, then when they come to collect it it is based on the CV (or in some areas part of it is a flat fee).

Cycleways are important, NZ is crap at building them, and doesn't have nearly enough

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old3eyes

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#2679043 23-Mar-2021 10:32

ajw:

How about downsizing and reducing the number of councils in the wgton region. Nine councils for a low population base is ridiculous

Hasn't worked too well in Auckland has it..

Regards,

Old3eyes

ajw

1932 posts

Uber Geek

#2679046 23-Mar-2021 10:35

old3eyes:

ajw:

How about downsizing and reducing the number of councils in the wgton region. Nine councils for a low population base is ridiculous

Hasn't worked too well in Auckland has it..

Auckland population 1.7 million and Wgtn region 700,000.

1101

3122 posts

Uber Geek

#2679269 23-Mar-2021 13:53

old3eyes:

ajw:How about downsizing and reducing the number of councils in the wgton region. Nine councils for a low population base is ridiculous

Hasn't worked too well in Auckland has it..

Yes it has, compared to how it used to be

Old Multiple Ak councils :
had the overspending on anything but core services , and massive debts .
had AK central spending on things that people in the other old Ak council regions would use but not contribute to costs
We had every Ak regional council wanting to build their own white elephant stadium, rather than 1 good one for all Ak
We had 4(?) overpaid mayors & 4(?) overpaid CEO/city mangers instead of one .

We know have centralised control, and a single entity rather than 4(?) who couldnt agree on most things
We know have a centralised plan , we dont have one council building stuff that other councils use & dont pay for
A centralised public transport plan .

We dont have perfection , we still have wasteage and over spending on non core assets & services
Merging was never going to solve all Ak's issues. I dont know why anyone expected that . Doesnt mean it wasnt a good decision .

elpenguino

3427 posts

Uber Geek

#2679388 23-Mar-2021 16:25

ajw:

How about downsizing and reducing the number of councils in the wgton region. Nine councils for a low population base is ridiculous

Not sure why amalgamation didn't proceed when it was mooted for Wellington some time ago.

I'm all in favour of it, mostly so it can so christchurchians banging on about being NZ's second biggest city :-)

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

MikeB4

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#2679439 23-Mar-2021 17:08

elpenguino:

Not sure why amalgamation didn't proceed when it was mooted for Wellington some time ago.

I'm all in favour of it, mostly so it can so christchurchians banging on about being NZ's second biggest city :-)

The residents of the region sent a very clear message that they did not want a "super city". The transport in the region is already err"coordinated" by the regional council

ajw

1932 posts

Uber Geek

#2679442 23-Mar-2021 17:12

MikeB4:

elpenguino:

Not sure why amalgamation didn't proceed when it was mooted for Wellington some time ago.

I'm all in favour of it, mostly so it can so christchurchians banging on about being NZ's second biggest city :-)

The residents of the region sent a very clear message that they did not want a "super city". The transport in the region is already err"coordinated" by the regional council

The duplication madhouse of local govt continues unabated.

MikeB4

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#2679443 23-Mar-2021 17:18

ajw:

The duplication madhouse of local govt continues unabated.

Not really in this case. The regional council in case manages public transport on behalf of the city councils in the region

mrdrifter

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#2679445 23-Mar-2021 17:23

Directly related to the park-n-ride, if this was to be charged for it will push significant numbers of vehicles into the surrounding residential and CBD streets, causing more issues (see. Wellington Airport parking issues around Miramar)

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