True cost of driving ..

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#1024623 13-Apr-2014 22:29

Geektastic:
freitasm:
Geektastic: Warranty now coming to an end and I have arranged a 3 year unlimited Km's Toyota extension for about $11000.

$11000?

Typo. Wearing a wrist brace - makes it trickier than usual!!

$1100

That is cheap. Hyundai charged ~$1700 for another 3 years. Decided not to bother with it. Spoke to a friend who owns a dealership and he does not think I use the car that much (15k a year), mostly garaged! The other mechanic at different dealership told me he only had one car that has problem which cost more than $1700 - most of the fault within 5 years are costs way less than that.

pctek

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#1024673 14-Apr-2014 08:26

Elpie: I question the economics of doing any major work on older vehicles.

Depends.

First Toyota I bought $1000. Had a clutch replaced, friend did it so it was cheap.....
Got written off after 3 years, bought next Toyota for $1500. Did no major work on it at all, had cambelt replaced.
Had that one for 4 years, gave it to son. Went well for another 6 months, clutch was starting to slip - but he wrote it off before he needed to do it.

Bought next Toyota for $2000, did nothing to it, lost a frost plug, didn't boil, but it got warm.
Then, after I kept saying it wasn't well, and being ignored, it seized on the way back from Hamilton. That lived 3 years so not bad.

Bought next Toyota for $3000. Had cambelt done, friend did it so $300 with parts at cost.
Been driving this one for a year now...

When I say did nothing - we do oil changes, filters etc ourselves.

Husband had a 1986 diesel Ute.
He replaced gearbox $400 (Himself), clutch - paid for that, shocks (friend), water pump, oil pump, had an accident in it and they replaced steering box at the same time (handy that as it was needing attention anyway), insurance paid for that.

In all he had the thing for 11 years. Finally got rid of it cause it needed the engine replaced and it wasn't economical to do, especially as diesel isn't cheap anymore anyway.

My cars - if they need engine or transmission - anything expensive, I'd throw it away and buy another one.
OTher things - cambelts, wheel bearings, CV joints whatever, get them fixed. But then I don't pay much for the cars in the first place.

All of them have had good, near new tyres when I bought them, the current one ditto, and it has been well maintained - they had all the paperwork to show that - plus everything was spotless - oil, transmission fluid etc....

So....works for us.

xpd

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#1024701 14-Apr-2014 09:25

I want my own car again (single car family, wife uses it) but after sitting down and working out running costs etc, its a lot cheaper for me to stick to the bus, less stress from sitting in traffic..... yet all my friends are like But you got a huge (well..it was for me) pay rise, you can afford it" - whats the point of getting a pay rise if youre just going to put it all back into a car getting to work each day.... no thanks. Enjoying having a bit of extra cash on hand to do/buy things we want.

Yes, I lose 2.5hrs a day on the bus, but beats 3+ hours sitting in Auckland traffic watching the petrol gas needle go down. :)

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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nakedmolerat

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#1024725 14-Apr-2014 10:02

xpd: ....watching the petrol gas needle go down. :)

This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

Sidestep

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#1024730 14-Apr-2014 10:10

nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

xpd

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#1024746 14-Apr-2014 10:32

nakedmolerat:
xpd: ....watching the petrol gas needle go down. :)

This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

Still sit in traffic for 3hrs.... the cost of driving is not just monetary, but psychologically and physical as well......

I love driving, just not in traffic.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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alasta

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#1024790 14-Apr-2014 11:32

Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

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ubergeeknz

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#1024799 14-Apr-2014 11:40

alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

Also in terms of the environment and total energy investment, hybrids are iffy at best. A modern, efficient diesel is a much better bet.

Fred99

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#1024913 14-Apr-2014 14:21

ubergeeknz:
alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

Also in terms of the environment and total energy investment, hybrids are iffy at best. A modern, efficient diesel is a much better bet.

That depends...
With $53 per 1,000km RUC (for even the smallest diesel), and higher registration costs, small efficient petrol engines might be a better bet than small diesel in NZ. Another potential issue for small diesels is if they're used only for local runabout trips, DPF regeneration can be a problem - they need to be taken open road when the light comes on, if you don't do this, then $$$.

Hybrids are effectively "subsidised" for RUC in NZ, as they use much less fuel for which RUC is levied per litre. Do the sums, and a Prius makes extremely good sense for uses such as taxis - with high annual km, lot's of idle time and stop-start.
It's a bit inequitable that a Porsche Cayenne hybrid owner ends up paying about the same in RUC as a Toyota Corolla owner, but even worse that a TDI VW Golf or Mini owner pays the same in road user charges as someone driving a 4.5 litre diesel Landcruiser. Many Euro importers don't even bother offering small diesels here, once because we were slow to introduce suitable fuel - now because we pretty well tax them off the road.

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#1024921 14-Apr-2014 14:33

Fred99:
ubergeeknz:
alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

Also in terms of the environment and total energy investment, hybrids are iffy at best. A modern, efficient diesel is a much better bet.

That depends...
With $53 per 1,000km RUC (for even the smallest diesel), and higher registration costs, small efficient petrol engines might be a better bet than small diesel in NZ. Another potential issue for small diesels is if they're used only for local runabout trips, DPF regeneration can be a problem - they need to be taken open road when the light comes on, if you don't do this, then $$$.

Hybrids are effectively "subsidised" for RUC in NZ, as they use much less fuel for which RUC is levied per litre. Do the sums, and a Prius makes extremely good sense for uses such as taxis - with high annual km, lot's of idle time and stop-start.
It's a bit inequitable that a Porsche Cayenne hybrid owner ends up paying about the same in RUC as a Toyota Corolla owner, but even worse that a TDI VW Golf or Mini owner pays the same in road user charges as someone driving a 4.5 litre diesel Landcruiser. Many Euro importers don't even bother offering small diesels here, once because we were slow to introduce suitable fuel - now because we pretty well tax them off the road.

Problem as I see it with hybrids is how long the batteries last and what cost to replace them. Last time I heard it was very expensive. Hybrids only make sense if you get one on a 3 year lease..

Regards,

Old3eyes

Fred99

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#1024926 14-Apr-2014 14:46

old3eyes:
Fred99:
ubergeeknz:
alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

Also in terms of the environment and total energy investment, hybrids are iffy at best. A modern, efficient diesel is a much better bet.

That depends...
With $53 per 1,000km RUC (for even the smallest diesel), and higher registration costs, small efficient petrol engines might be a better bet than small diesel in NZ. Another potential issue for small diesels is if they're used only for local runabout trips, DPF regeneration can be a problem - they need to be taken open road when the light comes on, if you don't do this, then $$$.

Hybrids are effectively "subsidised" for RUC in NZ, as they use much less fuel for which RUC is levied per litre. Do the sums, and a Prius makes extremely good sense for uses such as taxis - with high annual km, lot's of idle time and stop-start.
It's a bit inequitable that a Porsche Cayenne hybrid owner ends up paying about the same in RUC as a Toyota Corolla owner, but even worse that a TDI VW Golf or Mini owner pays the same in road user charges as someone driving a 4.5 litre diesel Landcruiser. Many Euro importers don't even bother offering small diesels here, once because we were slow to introduce suitable fuel - now because we pretty well tax them off the road.

Problem as I see it with hybrids is how long the batteries last and what cost to replace them. Last time I heard it was very expensive. Hybrids only make sense if you get one on a 3 year lease..

I'm sure the lease companies have that all worked out - there's no free lunch.
No - hybrids can make good sense for high mileage use. By the time battery needs replacing, then with typical annual km they've saved as much as $30k in total fuel costs (incl RUC) compared to a petrol car, so the cost of battery replacement isn't such a big deal. For private low-mileage ownership - I don't think they're a good option at all. They also seem to last well in taxi service - I've been in a few with over 400,000km on the clock. Interior space is also pretty good - suitable for taxi use.

Inphinity

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#1024931 14-Apr-2014 14:49

xpd:
nakedmolerat:
xpd: ....watching the petrol gas needle go down. :)

This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

Still sit in traffic for 3hrs.... the cost of driving is not just monetary, but psychologically and physical as well......

I love driving, just not in traffic.

That is dependent on your own transit position, though. For me, I can drive to/from work about 15min each way, or I can spend 60 minutes each way in a combination walk/bus. The bus fees are more than my daily petrol costs. So in driving, I save money (car is required anyway, so fixed costs like WOF/Rego/Insurance are irrelevant for this), time, and gain flexibility (e.g. can stop at the shops on the way home for groceries).

ubergeeknz

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#1024943 14-Apr-2014 15:09

Fred99:
ubergeeknz:
alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

Also in terms of the environment and total energy investment, hybrids are iffy at best. A modern, efficient diesel is a much better bet.

That depends...
With $53 per 1,000km RUC (for even the smallest diesel), and higher registration costs, small efficient petrol engines might be a better bet than small diesel in NZ. Another potential issue for small diesels is if they're used only for local runabout trips, DPF regeneration can be a problem - they need to be taken open road when the light comes on, if you don't do this, then $$$.

Hybrids are effectively "subsidised" for RUC in NZ, as they use much less fuel for which RUC is levied per litre. Do the sums, and a Prius makes extremely good sense for uses such as taxis - with high annual km, lot's of idle time and stop-start.
It's a bit inequitable that a Porsche Cayenne hybrid owner ends up paying about the same in RUC as a Toyota Corolla owner, but even worse that a TDI VW Golf or Mini owner pays the same in road user charges as someone driving a 4.5 litre diesel Landcruiser. Many Euro importers don't even bother offering small diesels here, once because we were slow to introduce suitable fuel - now because we pretty well tax them off the road.

FWIW I was not talking about dollars but actual energy expenditure, ie. to build a hybrid, carry the weight of the batteries + engine, and with battery replacement required at about 10 years, the actual amount of energy sunk in over the lifetime of the vehicle is a lot more than a modern, efficient diesel only vehicle. It may balance out in taxis and similar high-mileage applications but for the general user, I doubt it very much.

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#1024944 14-Apr-2014 15:13

alasta:
Sidestep:
nakedmolerat: This wont be much a problem with Prius or Outlander

watch your bank balance go down instead.. and have your own wee cloud of 'smug'

I've always considered the Prius to be a bit pointless because the Prius C is at least $15k more expensive than a Kia Rio diesel and probably costs about the same to run.

I like the idea of the Outlander plug in hybrid, though. Hopefully these types of vehicle will get cheaper in the next few years.

I like the Outlander and the Holden Volt but ideally I would prefer not to use fossil fuels at all. The Toyota Prius C at $32,280 or the Honda Insight at $36,900 are not badly priced given the technology used.
The Kia Rio whilst cheap is not a good drive at all, I had one for a couple of days for a test drive and it was horrible.

alasta

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#1024961 14-Apr-2014 15:40

KiwiNZ:I like the Outlander and the Holden Volt but ideally I would prefer not to use fossil fuels at all. The Toyota Prius C at $32,280 or the Honda Insight at $36,900 are not badly priced given the technology used.

Okay, that's actually cheaper than I thought.

The Kia Rio whilst cheap is not a good drive at all, I had one for a couple of days for a test drive and it was horrible.

I have one and I don't really have a problem with it. As with most cars of that size it's underpowered, but the ride and handling seems fine as is the quality of the switchgear. I don't use it much, though, so maybe I just wouldn't notice the difference between a good car and a bad one.

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