Disputing a train fare with Tranz Metro

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Bung

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#1129081 15-Sep-2014 15:01

mckenndk: It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

I'm sure I've been on commuter trains going South of London that didn't have guards. The platforms had banks of video monitors showing the doors where the driver could see them.

mckenndk

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#1129127 15-Sep-2014 15:28

That's the same setup that they have on the Tube, have not been on a southern commuter service to can't comment on that. Do they have barriers at all commuter stations?

If it was all setup correctly and got passed through safety and the Union without any problems it could work.

graemeh

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#1129132 15-Sep-2014 15:32

mckenndk:
graemeh:
mckenndk: It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

Docklands rail in the UK do not have guards, they don't even have drivers or electronic barriers controlling access to the platforms.

They do have roving staff but not one on every train or platform.

It doesn't it depends on people being good and finding one of the tag in things that can be very hard to find at some stations.
I doubt a system like that would work in the Hutt Valley.

I had no problem finding the tag in thing, it was always near the bottom of the escalator, perhaps I was just lucky or perhaps they have improved the siting of the tag in/out things.

If the system can work in London it can work in the Hutt Valley.

Geektastic

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#1129210 15-Sep-2014 16:38

mckenndk: That's the same setup that they have on the Tube, have not been on a southern commuter service to can't comment on that. Do they have barriers at all commuter stations?

If it was all setup correctly and got passed through safety and the Union without any problems it could work.

The union is the biggest problem in Kiwirail. They kibosh every form of progress.

Geektastic

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#1129211 15-Sep-2014 16:39

markl:
Geektastic:

Of course they can force them. They just make receipt of certain monies conditional on using it!!

What monies exactly - NZTA doesn't fund GW at all...not for train fares at least. I know there are other schemes where subsidies are provided by NZTA and they therefore have "leverage" over the councils in those areas, but I'm not aware of NZTA providing subsidies for public transport use. Please do correct me if I'm wrong however.

Any monies. All councils receive government money for something - you just suggest that those monies may be cut if they do not get with the program...

Geektastic

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#1129213 15-Sep-2014 16:41

mckenndk: That wording can do with a bit of an overhaul.
It was implemented due to Wairarapa customers not being able to get a seat usually until Upper Hutt due to the train being full of people wanting a quick ride home.

It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

You simply seal the stations, like an Underground station. In order to enter and exit the stations you must either insert a ticket or badge a Hop card thing. Hardly rocket science and very widespread already around the world so no need to reinvent the wheel. Just buy a system that already works.

Bung

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#1129239 15-Sep-2014 17:14

Geektastic: The union is the biggest problem in Kiwirail. They kibosh every form of progress.

Is that the excuse that the "antediluvian management" spread around the office when your wife worked there?

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markl

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#1129253 15-Sep-2014 17:17

Geektastic:
markl:
Geektastic:

Of course they can force them. They just make receipt of certain monies conditional on using it!!

What monies exactly - NZTA doesn't fund GW at all...not for train fares at least. I know there are other schemes where subsidies are provided by NZTA and they therefore have "leverage" over the councils in those areas, but I'm not aware of NZTA providing subsidies for public transport use. Please do correct me if I'm wrong however.

Any monies. All councils receive government money for something - you just suggest that those monies may be cut if they do not get with the program...

Yeah, and that will go down well with the voters when its made public. It's one thing to suggest to a council that the money they get for x will be delayed or reduced if they don't use solution y which is related to x but you don't get to threaten to withhold money a council receives for another purpose entirely. Well, not unless you're writing a script for shortland street or something

Geektastic

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#1129303 15-Sep-2014 18:22

Bung:
Geektastic: The union is the biggest problem in Kiwirail. They kibosh every form of progress.

Is that the excuse that the "antediluvian management" spread around the office when your wife worked there?

Nope. It was witnessed first hand in meetings!

Geektastic

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#1129307 15-Sep-2014 18:25

markl:
Geektastic:
markl:
Geektastic:

Of course they can force them. They just make receipt of certain monies conditional on using it!!

What monies exactly - NZTA doesn't fund GW at all...not for train fares at least. I know there are other schemes where subsidies are provided by NZTA and they therefore have "leverage" over the councils in those areas, but I'm not aware of NZTA providing subsidies for public transport use. Please do correct me if I'm wrong however.

Any monies. All councils receive government money for something - you just suggest that those monies may be cut if they do not get with the program...

Yeah, and that will go down well with the voters when its made public. It's one thing to suggest to a council that the money they get for x will be delayed or reduced if they don't use solution y which is related to x but you don't get to threaten to withhold money a council receives for another purpose entirely. Well, not unless you're writing a script for shortland street or something

It's all how the world really works. In (very) short form:

"Oh I am so sorry - that budget is almost exhausted. I expect we could find some in another vote but of course it would be so much easier if you were on board with our new idea. Oh you are? How nice. I will ask Fred to get in touch with you to discuss that. Meanwhile, let me go and see if I can squeeze some money out of somewhere for you for that other thing!"

MileHighKiwi

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#1129730 16-Sep-2014 10:55

mckenndk: That wording can do with a bit of an overhaul.
It was implemented due to Wairarapa customers not being able to get a seat usually until Upper Hutt due to the train being full of people wanting a quick ride home.

It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

Yep, and it's a valid policy when catching the train from Wellington to the Hutt Valley. My gripe is when I want to jump on at the halfway point.

I think having a 'train manager' is a good idea, and they could do the safety procedures etc...but the actual need to clip a ticket is pointless.

To deal with fare evasion etc, just have steeper penalties and random checking.

Geektastic

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#1129735 16-Sep-2014 11:01

MileHighKiwi:
mckenndk: That wording can do with a bit of an overhaul.
It was implemented due to Wairarapa customers not being able to get a seat usually until Upper Hutt due to the train being full of people wanting a quick ride home.

It's hard to say if you will get rid of Guards, you will need a person at every station if you do to make sure all the doors are shut and everyone is on safe, even in the uk with their electronic ticketing system you still have guards on trains to make sure you have bought the correct ticket and for safety.

Yep, and it's a valid policy when catching the train from Wellington to the Hutt Valley. My gripe is when I want to jump on at the halfway point.

I think having a 'train manager' is a good idea, and they could do the safety procedures etc...but the actual need to clip a ticket is pointless.

To deal with fare evasion etc, just have steeper penalties and random checking.

Or we just seal stations and require you to insert a ticket or badge a card in order to get on the platform in the first place.

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