Electric cars in bus lanes

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#1547709 6-May-2016 16:37

ToPGuNZ:

Sam91:

I agree it's unnecessary.

Any Northern Express travellers out there? This reminds me of the Greville Rd on-ramp where there is a transit lane. During peak hour the Northern Express pulls off at Greville Rd and goes through to the transit lane on the Greville on-ramp, after the transit lane there is a bus lane. The problem is, the transit lane is only few hundred metres long, so all these T2 cars end up blocking access to the bus lane as they try to merge. Sometimes it can take several minutes for the buses to get through.

I also agree it is a bad idea. Just note that it is MOT suggesting this not Auckland Transport so the only one MOT could allow in Auckland from what I understand is Northern Busway as they own it. The rest will require Auckland Transport support which I would have thought highly unlikely.

I use Greville road transit most days and it is really bad. Fortunately a new design is due in a few weeks as part of the Northern Corridor improvements. Busways look underutilised because they are run efficiently and congestion free. Add single occupant EV's to them (also loads of taxis and ubers) and there goes moving 40% of people heading to the city efficiently.

IMHO the major issue at Greville ( and Constellation) on-ramps is permitting trucks thru. A couple of truck n trailers in a row, and you have effectively killed off the T2 and Bus lane advantage. There is NO reason to allow trucks thru the T2 lanes in the morning - most other on-ramps don't cater for trucks.

I can understand the Ports-to-Southern Mway allowing trucks thru as they have a hill to grind up, and perhaps Mt Wellington, as that is a major industrial hub, but elsewhere, nah.

Apologies, off topic rambling ...

jarledb

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#1547723 6-May-2016 17:54

gzt:
jarledb: There are 1000 EVs in NZ at the moment, allowing them to use the bus lane will to little to disrupt anything now.

This low number surprises me. I spot the Leaf all the time in Auckland. Where is that number from? I'm sure it is much higher. It does make sense they will be concentrated in urban areas. Auckland suburban and city traffic is a perfect use case.

Oh I am sorry, I overshot by about 100%. Its 600. Ref: http://driveelectric.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-5April2016.pdf

There is no way they are getting to 64.000 vehicles by 2021 by doing what they have been doing, which is basically nothing.

There should be a complete tax exception on fully electric vehicles if they want to see a substantial increase in EVs in New Zealand.

The only thing in their "new plan" that will increase the uptake somewhat is actually allowing EVs to use the bus lane. That will increase the uptake in the big cities where congestion is a problem.

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Linuxluver

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#1547799 6-May-2016 19:30

Why slow the buses down for people in single-occupant cars of any kind?

Just one more example of how this government just doesn't get it at all.

I certainly can't vote for them. This is one more reason among a huge many, many.

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Linuxluver

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#1547800 6-May-2016 19:32

jarledb:

Oh I am sorry, I overshot by about 100%. Its 600. Ref: http://driveelectric.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-5April2016.pdf

There is no way they are getting to 64.000 vehicles by 2021 by doing what they have been doing, which is basically nothing.

There should be a complete tax exception on fully electric vehicles if they want to see a substantial increase in EVs in New Zealand.

The only thing in their "new plan" that will increase the uptake somewhat is actually allowing EVs to use the bus lane. That will increase the uptake in the big cities where congestion is a problem.

Cars in the bus lanes is a back door for taxis. Ar they talking pure EVs or do hybrids apply?

If hybrids apply this would be just one more example of this government screwing all public transport users for the benefit of its private transport cronies.

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#1547817 6-May-2016 20:24

Official press release:

Simon Bridges, 5 MAY, 2016

Govt driving the switch to electric vehicles

Transport Minister Simon Bridges today announced an ambitious and wide ranging package of measures to increase the uptake of electric vehicles in New Zealand.

“It’s clear that electric vehicles are the future. A move from petrol and diesel to low emission transport is a natural evolution, and it is our aim to encourage that switch sooner, rather than later,” Mr Bridges says.

“The benefits of increasing uptake of electric vehicles are far-reaching. They’re cheaper to run than petrol or diesel vehicles, they’re powered by our abundant renewable electricity supply, and they’ll reduce the amount of emissions that come from the country’s vehicle fleet.”

The package announced today will tackle and remove barriers that have until now prevented households and business from choosing electric. Current barriers include the limited selection of models available; a lack of widespread public charging infrastructure; and lack of awareness about electric vehicles.

“The Government can’t tackle these barriers alone. That’s why we’ve been working closely with the private sector and local government over the last year on what measures we can take that will have the greatest impact.

“What we’ve come up with together is a strong package of measures that is ambitious and has real substance,” Mr Bridges says.

The Government’s package includes:

A target of doubling the number of electric vehicles in New Zealand every year to reach approximately 64,000 by 2021
Extending the Road User Charges exemption on light electric vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicle fleet
A new Road User Charges exemption for heavy electric vehicles until they make up two percent of the heavy vehicle fleet
Work across Government and private sector to investigate the bulk purchase of electric vehicles
Government agencies coordinating activities to support the development and roll-out of public charging infrastructure including providing information and guidance
$1 million annually for a nation-wide electric vehicle information and promotion campaign over five years
A contestable fund of up to $6 million per year to encourage and support innovative low emission vehicle projects
Allowing electric vehicles in bus lanes and high-occupancy vehicle lanes on the State Highway network and local roads
Review of tax depreciation rates and the method for calculating fringe benefit tax to ensure electric vehicles are not being unfairly disadvantaged
Establishing an electric vehicles leadership group across business, local and central government.

The package also seeks to realise the many benefits that electric vehicles offer up.

“This includes annual savings of Road User Charges of $600 a year for the average vehicle owner and much cheaper operating costs. On average, charging an electric vehicle at home is equivalent to buying petrol at 30 cents a litre, compared to petrol which is around $2 a litre.”

Mr Bridges says the package is an important part of the Government’s work to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the transport sector.

“Electric vehicles will maximise New Zealand’s renewable advantage, with more than 80% of the country’s electricity coming from hydro, geothermal and wind. The increased use of electric vehicles will replace petrol and diesel with clean, green, locally produced energy.

“If we start to replace New Zealand’s fleet with electric vehicles, we can begin to significantly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions.”

Further information on the Government’s Electric Vehicles Programme is available here: www.transport.govt.nz/ev.

Simon Bridges
Energy and Resources
Transport

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#1547819 6-May-2016 20:41

So how does adding to electricity use plan to maintain that 80% renewable?

I'd say the renewable electric is already used before the 20% kicks in the coal generators... Likely these will be the way increase electricity would be produced too?

sleemanj

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#1547830 6-May-2016 21:21

What we need I reckon is a Kei or VSP type class of EV, single or dual tandem, small, limited by kw, I'd be OK with such vehicles using bus lanes.

Renault idly said sort of tangentially in the recent news that the Twizy would come to NZ.

Of course, price will probably be ridiculous.

I drive a single seat Kei class truck. It's awesome. But it's not electric.

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#1547856 6-May-2016 22:53

Linuxluver:

Why slow the buses down for people in single-occupant cars of any kind?

What kind of cars are going to slow a bus down? The EVs are not going to slow down the buses. There are not enough of them, and won't be enough of them for a very long time unless the NZ government introduces more incentives for people to buy them.

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#1547860 6-May-2016 23:25

PhantomNVD: So how does adding to electricity use plan to maintain that 80% renewable?

I'd say the renewable electric is already used before the 20% kicks in the coal generators... Likely these will be the way increase electricity would be produced too?

Depends on the charging time of day and time of year I guess. It's a good question.

In winter I'm guessing we have excess at night.

Summer when lakes are low? No idea. Maybe there is some geothermal baseline available.

gzt

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#1547869 6-May-2016 23:48

Linuxluver:
jarledb:

Oh I am sorry, I overshot by about 100%. Its 600. Ref: http://driveelectric.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-5April2016.pdf

There is no way they are getting to 64.000 vehicles by 2021 by doing what they have been doing, which is basically nothing.

There should be a complete tax exception on fully electric vehicles if they want to see a substantial increase in EVs in New Zealand.

The only thing in their "new plan" that will increase the uptake somewhat is actually allowing EVs to use the bus lane. That will increase the uptake in the big cities where congestion is a problem.

Cars in the bus lanes is a back door for taxis. Ar they talking pure EVs or do hybrids apply?

If hybrids apply this would be just one more example of this government screwing all public transport users for the benefit of its private transport cronies.

If they are counting hybrids in that 64,000 then it is a lot easier to see how they will reach that number with those settings. Hybrids do contribute to fuel efficiency and I presume CO2 reduction so it is not entirely unreasonable that hybrids should benefit from some proportional incentive.

However, it is really hard to see how we can get to a decent CO2 reduction with just current hybrid tech.

It is not clear from that release if this proposed incentive package will take us closer to our CO2 goals and how it is related to that.

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#1547872 7-May-2016 00:13

MikeB4:
Electric is the future but I don't believe plug in is the future, hydrogen fuel cell is the way to go long term but until then plug in EV's are a good alternative for short haul and Hybrids and alike for long haul.

It's an interesting one. Toyota made a production run of 700 for commercial sale. Styled more like a Holden so could be popular here if we had any infrastructure:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

But there are other issues. In theory the customer facing delivery infrastructure would look very similar to the current gas station model and that has to be attractive for the current industry but it is a lot of infrastructure compared to EV. Also FCV is generally not as efficient as EV, which is not a big deal but yet another advantage for EV.

gzt

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#1547887 7-May-2016 07:24

Linuxluver:
jarledb:

Oh I am sorry, I overshot by about 100%. Its 600. Ref: http://driveelectric.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/NZ-Electric-Car-Guide-5April2016.pdf

There is no way they are getting to 64.000 vehicles by 2021 by doing what they have been doing, which is basically nothing.

There should be a complete tax exception on fully electric vehicles if they want to see a substantial increase in EVs in New Zealand.

The only thing in their "new plan" that will increase the uptake somewhat is actually allowing EVs to use the bus lane. That will increase the uptake in the big cities where congestion is a problem.

Cars in the bus lanes is a back door for taxis. Ar they talking pure EVs or do hybrids apply?

If hybrids apply this would be just one more example of this government screwing all public transport users for the benefit of its private transport cronies.

Not all hybrids. Only: 1) pure EV and 2) plug in hybrids:

Ministry of Transport:

Electric vehicles are vehicles charged from an external electricity source.

They can be powered in two ways: solely by electric batteries. These are commonly known as pure electric vehicles; or a combination of electric batteries and a petrol or diesel engine. These are commonly known as plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.

So, not your average Prius hybrid. But yes to Prius PHEV, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and any large plug in electric trucking unit ; ).

There are some aftermarket kits to provide the standard Prius with plug in capabilities so I guess these will be eligible also.

It is a good selling point - use your Prius in the bus lane for one easy payment of $ ; ).

Maybe someone will create some token kit that can be fitted to use the bus and T2 lane. ; ).

tdgeek

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#1547897 7-May-2016 08:33

timbosan:

Lias:

What the government needs to do is stop ACC from bending motorcyclists over with the exorbitant levy scam they have going on. Electric cars are just as bad as petrol/diesel cars from a traffic congestion and parking point of view, the more people on motorcycles the better yet ACC is determined to drive people away from bikes.

+1 on this - I ride a scooter to work and 99% of the traffic I pass (which is cars stuck at lights or motorway on-ramps) is single-person-in-a-car stuff. And the amount I pay for rego on a 150cc scooter is way more than I pay on my 3.2 litre car, which just don't make sense!

And many drivers don't like it, despite that I am relieving space. Reduce rego costs, allow motorcycles to use the cycle lane in slow traffic if there is room (from cyclists). Cater for motorcyclists so that they relieve space for cars and encourage scooters and motorbikes to replace cars on the commute.

EV's, incentivise them, but its a financial issue, bus lanes????

blackjack17

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#1547909 7-May-2016 09:26

tdgeek:
timbosan:

Lias:

What the government needs to do is stop ACC from bending motorcyclists over with the exorbitant levy scam they have going on. Electric cars are just as bad as petrol/diesel cars from a traffic congestion and parking point of view, the more people on motorcycles the better yet ACC is determined to drive people away from bikes.

+1 on this - I ride a scooter to work and 99% of the traffic I pass (which is cars stuck at lights or motorway on-ramps) is single-person-in-a-car stuff. And the amount I pay for rego on a 150cc scooter is way more than I pay on my 3.2 litre car, which just don't make sense!

And many drivers don't like it, despite that I am relieving space. Reduce rego costs, allow motorcycles to use the cycle lane in slow traffic if there is room (from cyclists). Cater for motorcyclists so that they relieve space for cars and encourage scooters and motorbikes to replace cars on the commute.

EV's, incentivise them, but its a financial issue, bus lanes????

The acc cost comes solely from how much it cost acc to provide cover for motorcyclists

Motorcyclists have more accidents and are more likely to be injured than drivers which is why the acc levy is high. There is no scam going on, high risk activities have high acc leveys.

But in regard to electrics in bus lanes stupid idea that wont achieve what they want. It shows they have no understanding that in big cities a large proportion of people need to take public transport for the city to function.

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tdgeek

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#1547911 7-May-2016 09:30

blackjack17:
tdgeek:

timbosan:

Lias:

What the government needs to do is stop ACC from bending motorcyclists over with the exorbitant levy scam they have going on. Electric cars are just as bad as petrol/diesel cars from a traffic congestion and parking point of view, the more people on motorcycles the better yet ACC is determined to drive people away from bikes.

+1 on this - I ride a scooter to work and 99% of the traffic I pass (which is cars stuck at lights or motorway on-ramps) is single-person-in-a-car stuff. And the amount I pay for rego on a 150cc scooter is way more than I pay on my 3.2 litre car, which just don't make sense!

And many drivers don't like it, despite that I am relieving space. Reduce rego costs, allow motorcycles to use the cycle lane in slow traffic if there is room (from cyclists). Cater for motorcyclists so that they relieve space for cars and encourage scooters and motorbikes to replace cars on the commute.

EV's, incentivise them, but its a financial issue, bus lanes????

The acc cost comes solely from how much it cost acc to provide cover for motorcyclists

Motorcyclists have more accidents and are more likely to be injured than drivers which is why the acc levy is high. There is no scam going on, high risk activities have high acc leveys.

But in regard to electrics in bus lanes stupid idea that wont achieve what they want. It shows they have no understanding that in big cities a large proportion of people need to take public transport for the city to function.

Maybe so, but when your on two wheels you take more care. I don't want to be mixed in with those who are risk takers. I want a graduated rego, that reflects inexperience and experience and accident history. Im experienced, I pay 528.63, and a 49cc scooter user with 3 weeks experience or a 125 new rider pays naff all

Sorry for OT, back to topic.

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