NZ's Cheapest EV This Week: $9,850

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#1696479 30-Dec-2016 12:31

Linuxluver:

Petrol will be dead. Too dirty and far too expensive.

Although, the law of supply and demand would indicate that as more people switch to EVs, petrol will become progressively cheaper. We'll still need the kerosene and diesel distillates for aero and marine use, so petrol could become a cheap by-product.

As for dirty - well, a modern petrol engine with a catalytic converter isn't that

gzt

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#1696482 30-Dec-2016 13:01

networkn:
Are there any EV SW's or SUV's in NZ? We need way more trunk capacity than a standard sedan (plus have a German Shepherd).

I have been contemplating the idea of an EV or Hybrid for a while though have done next to no research.

The Toyota Highlander/Kluger got an extra 3" in 2014, and the hybrid has exact same capacity as the petrol only model. It gets good reviews for the mid size SUV category. 0-100 is almost the same.

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#1696493 30-Dec-2016 14:08

sonyxperiageek:
huckster:

networkn:

Are there any EV SW's or SUV's in NZ? We need way more trunk capacity than a standard sedan (plus have a German Shepherd).

I have been contemplating the idea of an EV or Hybrid for a while though have done next to no research.

There's the Mitsubishi PHEV. Hybrid.

We had the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for a test drive at one point this year. EV mode only lasts 37KM and less. Then it falls back on to petrol. While it does save you on a bit of gas, at the end of the day it is a plug-in hybrid meaning you have to plug it in to charge meaning it uses house electricity too.

That's the advantage. The electricity costs much less than the petrol. But plug in is not the only way to charge. Like other hybrids, it has regenerative braking, but with the unique addition of selectable downhill regeneration.

For suburban driving I doubt there is much to gain back from regen. For NZ hilly weekend driving the return may be better.

Interestingly it is the largest selling hybrid in the UK market for some reason. There are some tax advantages in that market. 2016 model has gone more Euro design for that market.

Edit: I see that link points to your review so you know this : ).

tdgeek

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#1696497 30-Dec-2016 14:43

Isn't a hybrid inefficient? Petrol used to carry extra weight, battery used to carry and engine. Cost is I assume a lot higher to buy as its two engines, and batteries. Seems like false economy to me

frankv

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#1696498 30-Dec-2016 14:49

tdgeek:

Isn't a hybrid inefficient? Petrol used to carry extra weight, battery used to carry and engine. Cost is I assume a lot higher to buy as its two engines, and batteries. Seems like false economy to me

An IC engine is *very* inefficient, especially at low power settings (which is where you spend most of your time driving). If you run your IC engine fairly efficiently at high power to charge the battery, and then turn it off for a while while running on the battery or stopped, the energy losses in the conversion to/from electricity is less than the inefficiency of the IC engine.

If your hybrid can transmit power from both the electric motor and the IC engine to the wheels simultaneously, then you can have plenty of (electric) power on tap when you want to accelerate, but use a cheaper, smaller, less powerful (and therefore less inefficient) IC engine for cruising.

And you can then use regenerative braking to recover some of the energy that would otherwise have been lost.

Incidentally, the electric motor is quite cheap... it's the batteries that are expensive. A hybrid can have smaller batteries than a pure EV, and therefore be a little cheaper.

But, yes, a hybrid is really a stop-gap until technology produces better batteries for electric vehicles, and a faster recharging process, and there is a network of recharging stations.

gzt

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#1696499 30-Dec-2016 14:53

Lower cost to run, ability to harvest energy from braking and downhill, less fluid use with consequent environmental disposal, probably lower and cleaner maintenance, and iirc Nissan claim a 40% reduction in full lifetime/lifecycle CO2. By those measures, more efficient.

tdgeek

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#1696501 30-Dec-2016 14:55

gzt: Lower cost to run, ability to harvest energy from braking and downhill, less fluid use with consequent environmental disposal, probably lower and cleaner maintenance, and iirc Nissan claim a 40% reduction in full lifetime/lifecycle CO2. By those measures, more efficient.

Even while the EV has to carry the engine and drivetrain weight, and the petrol has to cart around the EV plant and batteries?

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gzt

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#1696520 30-Dec-2016 16:23

tdgeek:
gzt: Lower cost to run, ability to harvest energy from braking and downhill, less fluid use with consequent environmental disposal, probably lower and cleaner maintenance, and iirc Nissan claim a 40% reduction in full lifetime/lifecycle CO2. By those measures, more efficient.

Even while the EV has to carry the engine and drivetrain weight, and the petrol has to cart around the EV plant and batteries?

I was replying to that point exactly. By the measures above, yes.

Linuxluver

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#1696624 30-Dec-2016 22:21

tdgeek:

gzt: Lower cost to run, ability to harvest energy from braking and downhill, less fluid use with consequent environmental disposal, probably lower and cleaner maintenance, and iirc Nissan claim a 40% reduction in full lifetime/lifecycle CO2. By those measures, more efficient.

Even while the EV has to carry the engine and drivetrain weight, and the petrol has to cart around the EV plant and batteries?

The hybrid is more complex and that leads to higher servicing costs over time.

The hybrid burns petrol which produces CO2 emissions.

When using words like "efficiency" It's important to understand what is actually ruled in and ruled out.

Hybrids use less fuel than petrol cars. They produce lower emissions.

But it ends there. The fossil fuel energy they primarily consume is far less efficient (15%-25%) in converting fuel into forward motion than the 80%-90% efficiency of converting battery electric power into forward motion.

In terms of addressing climate change, hybrids are more "efficient" than regular cars......but off-the-charts IN-efficient compared to a battery electric car charged from a renewable source (as in NZ through most of the day and all night).

ADDING: I have nothing against PHEVs. They are a huge step forward. Right now, they are the only option for many people with lifestyles that require the power and range of existing petrol technology from time to time......and can't go battery only yet.

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MikeB4

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#1696626 30-Dec-2016 22:26

Linuxluver:
tdgeek:

gzt: Lower cost to run, ability to harvest energy from braking and downhill, less fluid use with consequent environmental disposal, probably lower and cleaner maintenance, and iirc Nissan claim a 40% reduction in full lifetime/lifecycle CO2. By those measures, more efficient.

Even while the EV has to carry the engine and drivetrain weight, and the petrol has to cart around the EV plant and batteries?

The hybrid is more complex and that leads to higher servicing costs over time.

The hybrid burns petrol which produces CO2 emissions.

When using words like "efficiency" It's important to understand what is actually ruled in and ruled out.

Hybrids use less fuel than petrol cars. They produce lower emissions.

But it ends there. The fossil fuel energy they primarily consume is far less efficient (15%-25%) in converting fuel into forward motion than the 80%-90% efficiency of converting battery electric power into forward motion.

In terms of addressing climate change, hybrids are more "efficient" than regular cars......but off-the-charts IN-efficient compared to a battery electric car charged from a renewable source (as in NZ through most of the day and all night).

I always felt the Holden Volt was a better variation than the Toyota choice. But pure EV is by far better for this only home we have.

RUKI

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#1696893 31-Dec-2016 20:18

Linuxluver:

.........

There isn't really any such thing as "regular service" because the stuff that is regularly serviced in 'normal' cars doesn't exist in the LEAF.

- No coolant to check (no radiator or fan).....

Actually there is radiator, fan and coolant. In that video I dismantled on board Leaf charger. Coolant is cooling that charger. I did not show radiator or fan, but the cooling plate is between two parts of the charger - you can see the tubes:

Hybrids.co.nz presents dismantling Leaf Charger

blakamin

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#1696915 31-Dec-2016 21:12

RUKI:

Linuxluver:

.........

There isn't really any such thing as "regular service" because the stuff that is regularly serviced in 'normal' cars doesn't exist in the LEAF.

- No coolant to check (no radiator or fan).....

Actually there is radiator, fan and coolant. In that video I dismantled on board Leaf charger. Coolant is cooling that charger. I did not show radiator or fan, but the cooling plate is between two parts of the charger - you can see the tubes:

Hybrids.co.nz presents dismantling Leaf Charger

Wow, that vid is cool!

So the whole alloy housing is a watercooled heatsink with the passages between sides.

Is the coolant changeable or is it a sealed system?

Linuxluver

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#1696922 31-Dec-2016 21:46

RUKI:

Linuxluver:

.........

There isn't really any such thing as "regular service" because the stuff that is regularly serviced in 'normal' cars doesn't exist in the LEAF.

- No coolant to check (no radiator or fan).....

Actually there is radiator, fan and coolant. In that video I dismantled on board Leaf charger. Coolant is cooling that charger. I did not show radiator or fan, but the cooling plate is between two parts of the charger - you can see the tubes:

Hybrids.co.nz presents dismantling Leaf Charger

LOL! Ok. I didn't know that. Thanks, Yury. :-)

I've never heard of anyone needing to have it serviced. It's a sealed unit.

Update: Watched the video. Good to see!

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Linuxluver

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#1698624 4-Jan-2017 22:22

This week, the cheapest EV is still a Mitsubishi i-Miev for $10,850.

There are a couple of dozen Gen 1 Nissan Leafs (2011 and 2012) for between $12,990 and 16.995, with the majority being higher spec Model X from Japan for $15,995.

The cheapest Gen 2 LEAF (2013) with the newer battery and more range is $18.995. No info about the state of the battery, but it's only 3 years old. There are a couple at this price.

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Aaron2222

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#1702194 12-Jan-2017 18:51

Linuxluver:
This week, the cheapest EV is still a Mitsubishi i-Miev for $10,850.

There are a couple of dozen Gen 1 Nissan Leafs (2011 and 2012) for between $12,990 and 16.995, with the majority being higher spec Model X from Japan for $15,995.

The cheapest Gen 2 LEAF (2013) with the newer battery and more range is $18.995. No info about the state of the battery, but it's only 3 years old. There are a couple at this price.

Any English language model Leafs at a similar price point or are they all Japanese imports with non-changeable languages?

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