Brake rotors - experience?

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#1819703 11-Jul-2017 17:21

I'll never forget caning my old 1980 Subary Omega up and down the old Paekakariki Rd. I didn't realise until rather late as I came into SH1 that the brakes were *gone*. Pedal mashed into the floor, handbrake up, vicious downshifting and I serenely came to a stop half way into the SH1 lane. They were cooked but came back once they'd cooled down again.

I once had a Mitzi Cordia Turbo that could crack 200Kph. The rotors on that thing looked like they were made out of milk bottle tops. Utterly inadequate.

God I did some stupid things when I was young. I hope my kids are far more sensible than I was.

ratsun81

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#1819726 11-Jul-2017 17:43

Batman:

I think I may have bled the brakes already, just need to check the receipts. If not yest thanks I'll make sure we do that.

Re performance pads - in Otago there are umpteen hills and mountains that SH1 traverses - it just feels like after a while I don't trust the brakes anymore, so there is definitely some fade. Hence asking about the pads. But perhaps it's the whole package.

[The estima is a heavy vehicle, and feels that way unloaded, what more then you fit 8 fat people with their gear! And the fact that the rotors have been abused for 180,000ks is pretty good!]

Dont just bleed the brakes completely change the fluid, its hygroscopic and absorbs moisture causing loss of braking performance over time.

This is the main reason it says in the car manual to change the brake fluid at x mileage as typically over that period of time its absorbed water.

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#1819742 11-Jul-2017 17:54

ratsun81:

Batman:

I think I may have bled the brakes already, just need to check the receipts. If not yest thanks I'll make sure we do that.

Re performance pads - in Otago there are umpteen hills and mountains that SH1 traverses - it just feels like after a while I don't trust the brakes anymore, so there is definitely some fade. Hence asking about the pads. But perhaps it's the whole package.

[The estima is a heavy vehicle, and feels that way unloaded, what more then you fit 8 fat people with their gear! And the fact that the rotors have been abused for 180,000ks is pretty good!]

Dont just bleed the brakes completely change the fluid, its hygroscopic and absorbs moisture causing loss of braking performance over time.

This is the main reason it says in the car manual to change the brake fluid at x mileage as typically over that period of time its absorbed water.

Sorry that was what i meant. Now I know why. (I did know before, but didn't retain that information).

MikeAqua

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#1819743 11-Jul-2017 17:56

No good having flash harry brakes with el-cheapo tyres.

When you brake you slow the rotation of the wheels but the vehicle still has forward momentum over the road surface.

Prior to ABS if the deceleration of the wheel rotation was too rapid the tyres broke traction and started skidding, the wheels locked up and your brakes were doing feck all.

With ABS the brakes are pulsing to limit acceleration to what the tyres can handle without breaking traction and skidding (much).

Tyres are almost always the weakest link in a braking system. Almost any cars brakes can decelerate the wheels rapidly enough to overwhelm the grip of the tyres.

Mike

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#1819785 11-Jul-2017 18:55

I only use euro A rated tyres. usually continental or michelin. I have to say, when I was young and drove like a maniac, I have used Federal and Neuton tyres (before the days of the interweb education) and I'm still alive. I think they are ok (not flash, just ok) when new, but when worn they are like driving around on a plastic bottle.

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#1819786 11-Jul-2017 18:58

Batman:

I only use euro A rated tyres. usually continental or michelin. I have to say, when I was young and drove like a maniac, I have used Federal and Neuton tyres (before the days of the interweb education) and I'm still alive. I think they are ok (not flash, just ok) when new, but when worn they are like driving around on a plastic bottle.

you should try supercats for the made out of teflon nature of them. I cant even drive up some hills in the wet, but totally legit according to the WOF guys because they have craploads of tread on them. Stupid tire laws in NZ are stupid.

Richard rich.ms

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#1819789 11-Jul-2017 19:01

richms:

Batman:

I only use euro A rated tyres. usually continental or michelin. I have to say, when I was young and drove like a maniac, I have used Federal and Neuton tyres (before the days of the interweb education) and I'm still alive. I think they are ok (not flash, just ok) when new, but when worn they are like driving around on a plastic bottle.

you should try supercats for the made out of teflon nature of them. I cant even drive up some hills in the wet, but totally legit according to the WOF guys because they have craploads of tread on them. Stupid tire laws in NZ are stupid.

BF Goodrich Radial T/A... awesome for tyre smoke, totally crap for corners, wet, dry, straight.

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Ge0rge

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#1819793 11-Jul-2017 19:09

I have found that supercats make fantasic trailer tyres!

richms

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#1819796 11-Jul-2017 19:10

Ge0rge: I have found that supercats make fantasic trailer tyres!

I think that is where they will be going since the cheap trailers wheels are all rusty and its coming up on its 3 year birthday so first wof. Shame that the supercats are on the falcon which I heed to tow the damn trailer to the wof place.

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#1819804 11-Jul-2017 19:36

I would suggest getting a second opinion about the need to replace the rotors and pads.

Why?

This is notoriously the top item for a workshop to suggest as something that needs to be done in order to drum up work.

Most people do not know enough to know what is needed and they hear the word 'brakes' and worry.

Last time a garage told me that I needed all new brake pads and rotors I went and had the whole setup checked and measured according to the manufacturers published standards.

I was told that all of the rotors were fine and I could leave them on the car. I was told that the rear pads were fine and that the fronts might need replacing in 15-20 thousand KMs.

I ended up doing another 200,000 kms on that vehicle (400K total) and did not need to change anything other than the front pads. Twice.

Are you in the AA? If you are, take the vehicle to one of their centres, tell them what you have been told and ask them to have a look and report on the amount of disk and pad wear that you have left.

Might save you a lot of money.

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#1819862 11-Jul-2017 20:15

Good point. Will do. Other than brake fade down miles of downhill at 100ks it doesn't have any vibration no pulling to one side nothing.

ubergeeknz

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#1820020 12-Jul-2017 07:58

OK so rotors have a "tolerance" thickness.

Any thinner than this and they are unsafe (potential to fail under stress/heat).

here is what that can look like.

If you don't believe them it's not hard to take the wheel off and check with a caliper, look up the manufacturer specs and be done.

Brake pads also easy to verify once the wheel is off (sort of doable with wheel on in some cases)

Also keep in mind any time you change pads you "should" resurface the rotors. This takes off an amount of thickness and needs to be taken into account. Most times it is cheaper to actually replace a rotor than resurface anyway.

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#1820041 12-Jul-2017 09:09

Thanks

MikeAqua

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#1820063 12-Jul-2017 09:42

Batman:

I only use euro A rated tyres. usually continental or michelin.

Well done. Not many people would put good tyres on an MPV.

If you still want to up-spec your brakes then I would suggest you are looking at lower profile rims to accommodate bigger rotors with matching pads and callipers and probably an upgrade to the master cylinder.

I'm guessing some keen person somewhere has sportified a Previa or Estima and they may have posted about it online.

The Top Gear episode where they sportified a Renault MPV was amusing.

Mike

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#1821159 12-Jul-2017 11:33

Batman has mentioned several vehicles so far. I think he might be considering mods to the Subaru not sure which vehicle gets the good tyres.

The neighbour paid $500 for new rotors and pads on the front of his van yesterday but it is a Hiace variant not an Estima.

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