Battery alternatives for ev or hybrid vehicles

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#2102326 5-Oct-2018 20:41

clive100:

.. maybe 24K

Not "maybe", you are correct! Great attention to details and counting skills, thumbs up :-) :-) :-)

P.S. "Those who do absolutely nothing in life, make no mistakes"

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nunz

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#2102474 6-Oct-2018 13:25

RUKI:

Linuxluver:

....... particularly attractive as it takes an old LEAF (2011 or 2012) that barely had 130km range when new.....and makes it a car with a 37kWh battery and roughly 300km range. For only $15K. You mean if I buy an old LEAF for $9,000.....and add $15,000....I get a great car with another 10 years of life and 300km range? Count me in. At 300km you're talking about Auckland to Wellington with maybe 2 x 20 min charging stops....if that. I use the loo more often than that. ...This does also hint that conversion could be the way to go. Much cheaper than buying a new car.

People [I tend to believe, majority] can count money very well. $9K+$15K=$34

$32K (32 less that 34) is the price of the New Zealand New Hybrid Toyota Corolla (very frugal on gas - estimated ~4-5 L/100km)

I would like to know the name of that Champion who would make that epic decision: "forget about brand new Toyota when you can get old scrap value car (with most likely nearly dead suspension) and questionable battery quality being added to it for the same money? And Head unit in Japanese without navigation.. And no warranty or official support for the model.

For $28K you can get brand new hybrid Prius C or second hand from Japan (Aqua) for ~$15K.

The sad thing about the prius dong 4-5L per 100/km is my Honda Fit does 17km / litre around town, and that's 6L per 100km with no hybrid thrown in. And its cheaper. And it has no short battery life to kill it. Now if that was hybridized to make it run on even less - but until then spending 30k on a Prius makes no sense when 9k gets me a car with this efficiency and 11k only on the clock.

nunz

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#2102478 6-Oct-2018 13:27

tripper1000:

nunz: Looking at all the FUD about hydrogen on the net - the loss of energy, inefficiencies etc, what I dont see being said is that electrical production from the sun and hydro has an inexhaustible (in human years) supply and is clean. Who cares about inefficiencies if the initial product is darn near free.

Yeah, nah. Same theory says you shouldn't insulate your house.

Hydro and the sun might be inexhaustible, but it costs money to harness that energy and money is highly exhaustible. The people paying to harness than energy (me and you) care about inefficiencies.

Yet if Honda gets its mini Hydrogen makers online (second link on previous post) then a solar powered hydrogen creator with free water and free solar - looks very good.

but going back to my first post / question: Steam power. just found this:

https://inhabitat.com/old-fashioned-steam-engines-could-solve-solar-energy-storage-problem/

http://www.terrajoulecorp.com/unexpected-technology/how-it-works/

I do also believe work has been done on molten salts as an energy store as well.

Here: https://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage

Get these minturaised to a single car or household scale ...

PolicyGuy

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#2102562 6-Oct-2018 17:11

nunz:

I do also believe work has been done on molten salts as an energy store as well.

It has indeed, they're building them in Morocco and in South Australia at the moment

"The world’s biggest solar tower power plant with molten salt storage has begun commissioning in Morocco, and is scheduled to begin production by October" https://reneweconomy.com.au/worlds-biggest-solar-tower-with-storage-starts-commissioning-77818/
"The Aurora Solar Energy Project located near Port Augusta is a 150 megawatt solar thermal power station incorporating 8 hours of storage (1100 megawatts-hours). Under normal operating conditions the plant will have a capacity of about 135 megawatts, with the ability to increase that output in favourable conditions, such as in the evening. Aurora will deliver over 500 gigawatt-hours of energy annually – providing fully dispatchable baseload electricity to the network when electricity is needed most. Storage will enable the solar thermal station to operate just like a conventional coal or gas power station, reliably generating electricity day and night – except without any emissions" https://www.solarreserve.com/en/global-projects/csp/aurora

nunz

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#2107337 13-Oct-2018 16:38

PolicyGuy:

nunz:

I do also believe work has been done on molten salts as an energy store as well.

It has indeed, they're building them in Morocco and in South Australia at the moment

"The world’s biggest solar tower power plant with molten salt storage has begun commissioning in Morocco, and is scheduled to begin production by October" https://reneweconomy.com.au/worlds-biggest-solar-tower-with-storage-starts-commissioning-77818/
"The Aurora Solar Energy Project located near Port Augusta is a 150 megawatt solar thermal power station incorporating 8 hours of storage (1100 megawatts-hours). Under normal operating conditions the plant will have a capacity of about 135 megawatts, with the ability to increase that output in favourable conditions, such as in the evening. Aurora will deliver over 500 gigawatt-hours of energy annually – providing fully dispatchable baseload electricity to the network when electricity is needed most. Storage will enable the solar thermal station to operate just like a conventional coal or gas power station, reliably generating electricity day and night – except without any emissions" https://www.solarreserve.com/en/global-projects/csp/aurora

Wow - four or five of those and you'll power chch. I cant find a cost to implement. However if 90 000 homes spend $200 per month on power that's 8.64 billion (USA billion) over 40 years. It has to be less than that (recognizing a good chunk of that goes to retailers, lines etc)

GV27

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#2107384 13-Oct-2018 17:13

nunz:

Here: https://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage

Get these minturaised to a single car or household scale ...

Molten salt operates at stupidly high temps (think 150 degrees plus). It's pretty hard to heat up a battery that much for an EV to function but also keep it safe so there's some pretty big challenges there.

You can be pretty confident though that there's enough money chasing next-gen battery techs that they will eventually be figured out.

Gordy7

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#2107460 13-Oct-2018 21:54

I read that the Jaguar I-Pace is going to use Lithium pouch cells rather than cylindrical cells.

Same Lithium technology but just different packaging?

(When I win Lotto this will be the EV I will buy :-)

Gordy

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RUKI

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#2108533 15-Oct-2018 21:31

nunz:

... my Honda Fit does ....~ 6L per 100km with no hybrid thrown in. And its cheaper. And it has no short battery life to kill it. Now if that was hybridized to make it run on even less - but until then spending 30k on a Prius makes no sense when 9k gets me a car with this efficiency and 11k only on the clock.

No it is not cheaper if you compare new car prices. New Honda Jazz (Jazz and Fit - in the same category) is more expensive than new Prius C (Aqua).

My friend got New Zealand new Honda Jazz. It consumes ~ 6l/100km. He drives a lot. He loves rear seats folding feature in it. Good car.

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nunz

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#2111359 20-Oct-2018 11:44

GV27:

nunz:

Here: https://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage

Get these minturaised to a single car or household scale ...

Molten salt operates at stupidly high temps (think 150 degrees plus). It's pretty hard to heat up a battery that much for an EV to function but also keep it safe so there's some pretty big challenges there.

You can be pretty confident though that there's enough money chasing next-gen battery techs that they will eventually be figured out.

Closer to 1500 degrees C i believe. but look at parts of a car already. Exhaust manifold temperature is pretty high (1000 - 1500 F) and you get glowing metal in some parts .... Not that big a differnce at a certain level. both are really hot. Both are dangerous. both can be mitigated.

nunz

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#2111360 20-Oct-2018 11:46

RUKI:

nunz:

... my Honda Fit does ....~ 6L per 100km with no hybrid thrown in. And its cheaper. And it has no short battery life to kill it. Now if that was hybridized to make it run on even less - but until then spending 30k on a Prius makes no sense when 9k gets me a car with this efficiency and 11k only on the clock.

No it is not cheaper if you compare new car prices. New Honda Jazz (Jazz and Fit - in the same category) is more expensive than new Prius C (Aqua).

My friend got New Zealand new Honda Jazz. It consumes ~ 6l/100km. He drives a lot. He loves rear seats folding feature in it. Good car.

honda Jaxx - 22k up to 29k depending on extras.

Prius C 28k. Cheaper there.

but second hand fit / jazz will do more km before major refurbishment. I got one with 11k on the odo for 8-9k that's a near new car for 12k less than a medium leaf costs.

Dingbatt

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#2111366 20-Oct-2018 12:21

nunz:

but second hand fit / jazz will do more km before major refurbishment. I got one with 11k on the odo for 8-9k that's a near new car for 12k less than a medium leaf costs.

Just curious, are you going to run Apple Carplay or Android Auto in your Fit?

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nunz

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#2111424 20-Oct-2018 14:23

Dingbatt:
nunz:

but second hand fit / jazz will do more km before major refurbishment. I got one with 11k on the odo for 8-9k that's a near new car for 12k less than a medium leaf costs.

Just curious, are you going to run Apple Carplay or Android Auto in your Fit?

Neither - I value my quiet time. Mobile phone does 90% of what I want via blutooth and if i do voice stuff google is normally enough.

mdf

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#2114059 25-Oct-2018 20:53

Electroboom's take on it. He suggests more focus on the charging infrastructure rather than the batteries (and has an ElectroBoom-y rant and makes something explode):

nunz

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#2114233 26-Oct-2018 08:13

mdf:
Electroboom's take on it. He suggests more focus on the charging infrastructure rather than the batteries (and has an ElectroBoom-y rant and makes something explode):

Electroboom for world dictator...he is awesome!!!

But seriously.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/12/worlds-first-electrified-road-for-charging-vehicles-opens-in-sweden

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-tests-wireless-charging-roads-for-electric-vehicles/

There was acrowd sourced finding project for something similar. It would depend on how efficient wireless inductive charging is. Electrobooms use of capacitors is one idea as they quick charge but they also tend to quick discharge rather than slow trickle .. If my memory serves me correctly. (I didn't study electrics so can have kids according to electroboom)

Gordy7

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#2115306 28-Oct-2018 09:12

Lithium batteries with silicon anodes which replace the graphite anodes.... 20% better energy density...

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

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