Europe to restrict vehicle speed automatically

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#2206149 28-Mar-2019 11:06

WyleECoyoteNZ:

trig42:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Next the EU will be imposing the now abolished Japanese engine performance ceiling!

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/04/13/travel/why-japan-finally-got-its-foot-off-the-brake/#.XJvoRVUzaUk

All seems a little bit silly to me.

Does that now mean all future models will have some sort of GPS SatNav? Most do now, but not all.

What happens when in a tunnel?

They will use cameras to read speed limit signs. They are doing that now. The speed limit you are operating under will stay the same until the car sees a sign that changes it. I guess GPS will augment it, but it will be mostly on signs.

Do they use camera's or is it in the GPS SatNav\Map metadata? E.g. I can be sitting on the bus using waze and it knows the speed limit of the stretch of road.

Or is it a combination of both?

Possibly both, but when I drove through Europe last year, the car knew all the speed limits of the roads I was on, and this included temporary road works, so it was obviously using a camera, as I doubt that the GPS was that up-to-date (even Google was better than the car's built in GPS for roads that were/weren't there).

old3eyes

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#2206158 28-Mar-2019 11:26

trig42:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

trig42:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Next the EU will be imposing the now abolished Japanese engine performance ceiling!

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2008/04/13/travel/why-japan-finally-got-its-foot-off-the-brake/#.XJvoRVUzaUk

All seems a little bit silly to me.

Does that now mean all future models will have some sort of GPS SatNav? Most do now, but not all.

What happens when in a tunnel?

They will use cameras to read speed limit signs. They are doing that now. The speed limit you are operating under will stay the same until the car sees a sign that changes it. I guess GPS will augment it, but it will be mostly on signs.

Do they use camera's or is it in the GPS SatNav\Map metadata? E.g. I can be sitting on the bus using waze and it knows the speed limit of the stretch of road.

Or is it a combination of both?

Possibly both, but when I drove through Europe last year, the car knew all the speed limits of the roads I was on, and this included temporary road works, so it was obviously using a camera, as I doubt that the GPS was that up-to-date (even Google was better than the car's built in GPS for roads that were/weren't there).

My Mazda CX5 has a camera built in to the windshield that reads the speed and other road signs on puts it on the heads up display. It doesn't change the speed that the car is driving automatically.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#2206189 28-Mar-2019 12:34

No wonder Britain wants to leave the EU!!!!

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elpenguino

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#2206198 28-Mar-2019 12:55

Technofreak: No wonder Britain wants to leave the EU!!!!

UK has announced they'll follow these rules after brexit.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

ilovemusic

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#2206742 28-Mar-2019 23:52

a bit premature for april 1 ?

i can't see the mighty german car industry agreeing to this.

NzBeagle

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#2206809 29-Mar-2019 08:15

Geektastic: To give you an idea of the difference in enforcement attitudes there compared to here, which will carry over into any method of cheating this proposal, this is a report relating to the equivalent of unpaid Rego fees in the UK:

"Figures published today by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) show that almost 133,000 cars, vans and trucks were immobilised or impounded last year because of non-payment of road tax."

I suspect anyone caught with equipment to circumvent the rules would find at least some or all of

Huge fine
Invalid insurance
Invalid warranty on vehicle
Impound and crushing of vehicle
Prison term

There are devices that actually have the unintended side effect of blocking GPS signal, so "cheating" may be a pleasant surprise of the cheap as chips Bluetooth to FM transmitter you ordered online.

elpenguino

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#2206922 29-Mar-2019 11:04

Hi everybody,

I'm a European manufacturer of machines that are so popular many people have one. Unfortunately my machines are a bit dangerous and every year 25,000 people are killed in Europe while using my machines.

Even worse, some of those killed were not even using one of my machines but were killed by someone who was.

Technology exists to make my machines safer. I reckon new technology won't prevent all those deaths - it might only save half of them.

Should I bother trying to prevent the death of 12,000 people every year?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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Technofreak

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#2206936 29-Mar-2019 11:47

elpenguino:
Hi everybody,

I'm a European manufacturer of machines that are so popular many people have one. Unfortunately my machines are a bit dangerous and every year 25,000 people are killed in Europe while using my machines.

Even worse, some of those killed were not even using one of my machines but were killed by someone who was.

Technology exists to make my machines safer. I reckon new technology won't prevent all those deaths - it might only save half of them.

Should I bother trying to prevent the death of 12,000 people every year?

This is a very simplistic argument and in my opinion isn't justification for the propsed laws.

For example the roads in New Zealand with the highest speed limits have the lowest number of crashes per kilometre. So speed isn't necessarily the problem. In fact travelling well below a speed limit can still be fatally dangerous.

There are examples where safety features don't always have the expected outcome.

It has been shown that cars with stability control don't necessarily save lives, they may have less accidents but when they do crash it is at a higher speed with more serious consequences. Drivers drive to the limit of the car and beyond, and when it lets go it lets go with much more spectacular results.

Apparently the new rules haven't around safety barriers on roofs haven't reduced accidents to the extent that was expected. Human nature seems to be that if there's an increase in "safety nets" there's less need for taking personal care for the individuals safety.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
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elpenguino

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#2206942 29-Mar-2019 12:04

Technofreak:
elpenguino:

Hi everybody,

I'm a European manufacturer of machines that are so popular many people have one. Unfortunately my machines are a bit dangerous and every year 25,000 people are killed in Europe while using my machines.

Even worse, some of those killed were not even using one of my machines but were killed by someone who was.

Technology exists to make my machines safer. I reckon new technology won't prevent all those deaths - it might only save half of them.

Should I bother trying to prevent the death of 12,000 people every year?

This is a very simplistic argument and in my opinion isn't justification for the propsed laws.

For example the roads in New Zealand with the highest speed limits have the lowest number of crashes per kilometre. So speed isn't necessarily the problem. In fact travelling well below a speed limit can still be fatally dangerous.

There are examples where safety features don't always have the expected outcome.

It has been shown that cars with stability control don't necessarily save lives, they may have less accidents but when they do crash it is at a higher speed with more serious consequences. Drivers drive to the limit of the car and beyond, and when it lets go it lets go with much more spectacular results.

Apparently the new rules haven't around safety barriers on roofs haven't reduced accidents to the extent that was expected. Human nature seems to be that if there's an increase in "safety nets" there's less need for taking personal care for the individuals safety.

Of course it's simple - I have boiled the issue down to the main point. Do you want safer cars and less deaths?

It has been shown that cars with stability control don't necessarily save lives, they may have less accidents but when they do crash it is at a higher speed with more serious consequences. Drivers drive to the limit of the car and beyond, and when it lets go it lets go with much more spectacular results.

Cars will be limited in speed so they follow the posted limits.

Of course travelling slow can be dangerous too - if you get rear ended and you aren't wearing a seatbelt for example - you could still be parked for this to occur.

No one is claiming the computer system will be perfect - it only has to be better than the meatsack.

Apparently the new rules haven't around safety barriers on roofs haven't reduced accidents to the extent that was expected. Human nature seems to be that if there's an increase in "safety nets" there's less need for taking personal care for the individuals safety.

This argument doesn't stand up because by using technology humans are taken out of the decision making process - and obviously roofers aren't actually following OSH processes very well either.

it seems to me much of the resistance is emotional because people feel like they will be losing something. Yes it can be nice to put a vehicle through a few nice bends on a quiet road on a sunny day.

But honestly, most kms people drive is pure drudgery.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

rugrat

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#2206945 29-Mar-2019 12:09

To bad if there’s a medical emergency situation. Could also make overtakes more dangerous.

My TomTom shows a 10km/hr limit part of cashel street Christchurch and the actual speed limit is 30km/hr, so get data base errors. Have updated maps since then and error is still there.

Batman

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#2206947 29-Mar-2019 12:13

elpenguino:
Hi everybody,

I'm a European manufacturer of machines that are so popular many people have one. Unfortunately my machines are a bit dangerous and every year 25,000 people are killed in Europe while using my machines.

Even worse, some of those killed were not even using one of my machines but were killed by someone who was.

Technology exists to make my machines safer. I reckon new technology won't prevent all those deaths - it might only save half of them.

Should I bother trying to prevent the death of 12,000 people every year?

Do they ban cigarettes and alcohol in Europe too? They kill people too.

elpenguino

3419 posts

Uber Geek

#2206973 29-Mar-2019 13:03

Batman:
elpenguino:

Hi everybody,

I'm a European manufacturer of machines that are so popular many people have one. Unfortunately my machines are a bit dangerous and every year 25,000 people are killed in Europe while using my machines.

Even worse, some of those killed were not even using one of my machines but were killed by someone who was.

Technology exists to make my machines safer. I reckon new technology won't prevent all those deaths - it might only save half of them.

Should I bother trying to prevent the death of 12,000 people every year?

Do they ban cigarettes and alcohol in Europe too? They kill people too.

Ban smoking, I can't see any benefit to it. We could at least grandfather it out of existence.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

frankv

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#2207094 29-Mar-2019 14:02

Technofreak: There are examples where safety features don't always have the expected outcome.

Yup... people live to the perceived risk. So if a safety feature lowers the risk, people will increase the risk again to what they feel is "safe enough".

Another good example is the Cirrus aircraft, which was the first mainstream aircraft to incorporate a whole-aircraft parachute. A great safety feature, but the fatality rate for Cirrus aircraft is quite a bit higher than for other similar non-parachute-equipped aircraft (1.6/100,000 vs 1.2). The thinking is that pilots in Cirruses will take off into marginal conditions in the expectation that, worst case, they can pull the red handle and survive. Except that, when things do turn to custard, they presumably remain optimistic, and consequently don't pull the handle until too late.

tripper1000

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#2207118 29-Mar-2019 14:48

Batman: Do they ban cigarettes and alcohol in Europe too? They kill people too.

Most people who suffer unnatural deaths are killed by the actions or inaction of a human - they should also ban humans in the name of safety.

If this system can be used to increase the average speed on the roads (to something still within the limit of course) I would vote for it.

If I could actually drive everywhere at the speed limit I would arrive at my destinations in record time and I would be happy, but unfortunately other cars driving unnecessarily slow usual impede the way. Most "speed" deaths are caused by impatience, most impatience is caused by slow drivers. Slow drivers cause extra expenditure such as over taking lanes, hospitals and grave stones.

With a bit of computer tech like this we could quickly identify the drivers who are the ultimate cause of congestion and ban them from the roads, saving time, money and lives.

Edit: Quote correction.

Batman

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#2207121 29-Mar-2019 14:56

tripper1000:
Batman: Do they ban cigarettes and alcohol in Europe too? They kill people too.

Most people who suffer unnatural deaths are killed by the actions or inaction of a human - they should also ban humans in the name of safety.

If this system can be used to increase the average speed on the roads (to something still within the limit of course) I would vote for it.

If I could actually drive everywhere at the speed limit I would arrive at my destinations in record time and I would be happy, but unfortunately other cars driving unnecessarily slow usual impede the way. Most "speed" deaths are caused by impatience, most impatience is caused by slow drivers. Slow drivers cause extra expenditure such as over taking lanes, hospitals and grave stones.

With a bit of computer tech like this we could quickly identify the drivers who are the ultimate cause of congestion and ban them from the roads, saving time, money and lives.

Edit: Quote correction.

Am I reading that the cause of death is slow drivers? Ban slow drivers or install a minimum speed computer?

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