NZ's Cheapest EV This Week: $9,850

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#1702215 12-Jan-2017 20:10

Might be a chance for a bargain here.

Someone has a 2012 LEAF with an 11-bar battery (of 12 - so battery probably between 80% and 85% of original) on TradeMe and the latest bid is $2240.

The reserve has been met. This car is in play.

I did put one bid on it, but I won't bid again.....so no conflict here.

This could be the cheapest EV in NZ this week.

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Linuxluver

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#1702216 12-Jan-2017 20:13

Aaron2222:
Linuxluver:

This week, the cheapest EV is still a Mitsubishi i-Miev for $10,850.

There are a couple of dozen Gen 1 Nissan Leafs (2011 and 2012) for between $12,990 and 16.995, with the majority being higher spec Model X from Japan for $15,995.

The cheapest Gen 2 LEAF (2013) with the newer battery and more range is $18.995. No info about the state of the battery, but it's only 3 years old. There are a couple at this price.

Any English language model Leafs at a similar price point or are they all Japanese imports with non-changeable languages?

The Gen 2 Model S can have the multimedia unit replaced with a local one....including maps (from some vendors). But the G and X models are integrated into the car's energy managment, so can't be replaced.

I just used Google Translate on my phone to see what they were in English. You soon get used to it. :-)

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Aaron2222

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#1702299 12-Jan-2017 22:58

How long would the battery in one of these last before needing replacing?

Linuxluver

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#1702379 13-Jan-2017 07:40

Aaron2222: How long would the battery in one of these last before needing replacing?

Nissan say 8-10 years is the expectation. Other factors come into play. Degradation also flattens out, typically......so though degraded, they still work for a long time.

- If the car has been in a really hot place for years the battery fades faster. That isn't a problem in NZ, but where was the car prior to life in NZ? If it's one of the ones Nissan NZ imported from Australia it may have sat around in the heat for a couple of years....and that hasn't helped them. But the ones from Japan hold up much better.

- How was the battery managed by the previous owner? If they usually stopped at 80% and charged from about 20% then the battery will have been well managed. You absolutely can charge until full when you need to, but if you don't need to, best not to.

This one has 11 bars after at least 4 years. That suggests it's been reasonably well managed.

There is talk in the NZ EV Owners group on Facebook of being able to import a new (Gen1) LEAF battery from Nissan in Japan for US$1750+shipping. Then it becomes an issue of who and how it might be installed. Manakau Nissan have been good about supporting imported LEAFs. No firm conclusions at this point, but a 2012 LEAF is a great car in very good shape overall with some excellent features......and the only limiting factor is the (now slightly degraded) range of about 100km. If you're in Auckland, that isn't really much of an issue as there are now about 15 DC fast chargers around town - most of which are free - and you can charge the car from 30% to 80% - adding 50-60km- in about 10-12 minutes. There are now also enough fast chargers around a Gen 1 LEAF in Auckland can reasonably move between Kawakawa and Hamilton using fast chargers only.

The benefit is a smooth, quiet, cheap, reliable car that's a joy to drive...and zero emissions. The last is the thing most people are after, but the rest are a bonus.

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RUKI

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#1702584 13-Jan-2017 11:22

Aaron2222: How long would the battery in one of these last before needing replacing?

Another way of asking is: How many charge cycles (fast and usual) and kms travelled in that city (temperature matters as Dunedin usage and Auckland are not the same and terrain matters as well) before the remaining range would only be XX kms?

Put instead of XX your minimum acceptable range, say 12 km or 40km etc round trip to/from work

Reality of life is - NOBODY will be in a position right now to tell you that or provide formula to calculate that.

Direct analogy would be your laptop - in someone's laptop battery dies in 2-3 years, in someone else's - 5 years and still running for about 40 minutes :-)

If you are in business - it is simple - depreciate in 5 years and scrap. For private use - if you are prepared to scrap that Japanese imported Leaf in 5 years - good on you... Labour involved in just changing modules in Leaf is something like one full day. Multiply by the cost of an hour - and just for labour you are looking at ~ $1200 (based on ave price in Auckland garages).

Plus - you need to source the pack - consider 10K today for a used UNTESTED one

Plus if you need to test the ALL pack or individual modules - I am your man and that will not be cheap ....

Linuxluver

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#1707705 22-Jan-2017 22:05

The cheapest EV in NZ this week is still a Mitsubishi i-Miev for $10,750.

The cheapest Nissan LEAF in NZ this week is a 5yo 2011 Gen 1 LEAF for $12,750, with 11 battery bars out of 12 (so between 78% and 85% of original capacity). This car should still do 100km reliably.....and more in city street conditions.

With all the fast chargers around Auckland now there's no reason why this car couldn't easily range from Kaiwaka to Hamilton and Raglan.

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Linuxluver

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#1710817 27-Jan-2017 19:57

2017 01 27 - The cheapest EV in NZ this week is a 2010 Mitsi i-Miev for $9879.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/1066920497

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#1713323 31-Jan-2017 15:45

RUKI:

Labour involved in just changing modules in Leaf is something like one full day. Multiply by the cost of an hour - and just for labour you are looking at ~ $1200 (based on ave price in Auckland garages).

Plus - you need to source the pack - consider 10K today for a used UNTESTED one

Plus if you need to test the ALL pack or individual modules - I am your man and that will not be cheap ....

Seeing you're the professional here(being able to test packs etc), isn't battery just a battery? If the demand is there, won't someone start spinning up new batteries?

Or are there DRM type of mechanisms in place so leaf can only use leaf batteries and all modules does crazy public private key exchange and making sure ALL parts are authentic?

And wouldn't battery prices go down pretty quickly as production ramps up?

Otherwise I don't see why car companies would be brave enough to lease batteries rather than forcing consumers to buy them out right..

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#1714200 1-Feb-2017 21:32

alliao:

RUKI:

Labour involved in just changing modules in Leaf is something like one full day. Multiply by the cost of an hour - and just for labour you are looking at ~ $1200 (based on ave price in Auckland garages).

Plus - you need to source the pack - consider 10K today for a used UNTESTED one

Plus if you need to test the ALL pack or individual modules - I am your man and that will not be cheap ....

Seeing you're the professional here(being able to test packs etc), isn't battery just a battery? If the demand is there, won't someone start spinning up new batteries?

Or are there DRM type of mechanisms in place so leaf can only use leaf batteries and all modules does crazy public private key exchange and making sure ALL parts are authentic?

And wouldn't battery prices go down pretty quickly as production ramps up?

Otherwise I don't see why car companies would be brave enough to lease batteries rather than forcing consumers to buy them out right..

I think you're right about batteries getting cheaper. Tesla reckon they have the price per kWh down to US$190 (from US$280+ just 3 years ago).

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dickytim

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#1714278 2-Feb-2017 06:14

Don't you mean Coal vehicle?

By the time you add a whole lot more electric vehicles the electricity they use ends up being from coal. That is a really dirty form of energy right there.

Then we add the lithium mined in very environmentally unfriendly ways used in the batteries, the waste batteries etc. and we actually have a dirty vehicle running.

Unless NZ can really quickly increase "cleaner" energy options to top up what is already used for these new electric vehicles we are returning to the age of steam engines...

Linuxluver

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#1716406 7-Feb-2017 10:50

dickytim:

Don't you mean Coal vehicle?

By the time you add a whole lot more electric vehicles the electricity they use ends up being from coal. That is a really dirty form of energy right there.

Then we add the lithium mined in very environmentally unfriendly ways used in the batteries, the waste batteries etc. and we actually have a dirty vehicle running.

Unless NZ can really quickly increase "cleaner" energy options to top up what is already used for these new electric vehicles we are returning to the age of steam engines...

You need to check your facts. They are literally ALL wrong or misleading the point of being completely wrong. You have a perfect score of 'wrong'.

1. In 2015, NZ's electricity is 80.8% renewable as a base....and up to 93% renewable on some days. The percentage of renewable electricity used each day has been rising steadily. If you charge your EV off-peak you are certainly NOT using coal-tricity. But even if you were, the car itself is emitting nothing from buring fuel....which can't be said for a petrol or diesel car.

2. Lithium is 'mined' by evaporating water.

3. Lithium batteries can be recycled. But before they are physically broken up and reconstituted they can have a long secondary life as wall-mounted storage units for solar power. A 24kWh former "LEAF battery that can now only yield 12kWh due to degradation still has almost three times the power storage of a Tesla Powerwall battery. It will be another 15-20 years before it degrades to only 4.9kWh. Then it can be physically recycled.

EVs are cleaner than any OTHER vehicle....and by a wide margin.

They are also cheaper to run and more reliable.

But I am curious....where are you getting this rubbish info and why didn't you check ANY of it. You're wrong on EVERY point. A quick Google and a read completely debunks EVs as being dirtier than petrol or diesel cars.....even where the only power available was generated by coal....which is not the case in NZ and not even close.

Yes. Huntly still burns coal (update: in two of four units, the other two use gas) but they were supposed to shutdown the two coal units in 2018......and then in April 2016 this government let them off the hook. The Huntly plant produces more than 50% of the carbon emissions from electricity generation in NZ. It's one of the main reasons I refuse to buy power from Genesis. (Update: the two remaining coal units are supposed to shutdown in 2022).

If you seriously want to deal with emissions......don't vote for National.

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trig42

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#1716408 7-Feb-2017 10:58

^ Agreed.

NZ is almost a perfect test bed for EVs - a high proportion of renewable energy, and we can generate more than we need off-peak, which is a perfect time to recharge a car.

It is a pity that Nissan isn't selling the Leaf themselves.

I have convinced SWMBO that our next 'local' car (we live on Waiheke) should be electric. I'd love to get one ASAP, but cannot fit it in the budget just yet. She'd get over a week of her tootling around (to work and back, shopping etc.) on one charge in even a Gen 1 Leaf.

Linuxluver

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#1716417 7-Feb-2017 11:17

TradeMe lets you search vehicles by fuel source. To find the cheapest EV in NZ, just search for cars with "electric" as the power source and then rank by "Lowest price".

The cheapest EV this week is still a Mitsubishi i-Miev at $9,879.

There are also 17 Gen 1 Nissan LEAFs going for less than $14,000.

The cheapest Gen 2 LEAF is a 2013 model with 22k kms at $18250 + $495 ORC. (Gen 2 batteries are newer and so far seem to be moer robust than Gen 1 batteries - and Gen 2 has about 17% more range than a Gen 1).

Honourable mention goes to a converted-to-EV Toyota MR2 for $23,000. The owner clearly loves this car. It looks awesome inside and out.

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NzBeagle

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#1716441 7-Feb-2017 11:33

Linuxluver:

Honourable mention goes to a converted-to-EV Toyota MR2 for $23,000. The owner clearly loves this car. It looks awesome inside and out.

Wow, that is awesome!

Linuxluver

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#1716448 7-Feb-2017 11:52

NzBeagle:

Linuxluver:

Honourable mention goes to a converted-to-EV Toyota MR2 for $23,000. The owner clearly loves this car. It looks awesome inside and out.

Wow, that is awesome!

Right? I'm seriously tempted to buy it. :-)

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