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tripper1000
1617 posts

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  #2207138 29-Mar-2019 15:31
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Batman: Am I reading that the cause of death is slow drivers? Ban slow drivers or install a minimum speed computer?

 

There are economic and safety advantages in doing so. It depends on where you think the buck stops - the simple answer is that the buck stops with the speeding driver, but the deeper thinkers will ask why the driver was speeding. You only die from speeding once, so if the buck truly stopped with the speeding driver, it would surely be a self solving problem. It is not, therefore the buck obviously doesn't stop with the speeding driver. 

 

Most (not all) fatal incidents have more than 1 contributing factor, and elimination of any one of the factors would have changed the outcome. When a single solitary factor is repeatedly villainised (statistically less than 20% of fatalities are due to speed but how much do you hear about the other 80%?) then either the narrator thinks the audience is stupid or the narrator is stupid. Either way 80% of the opportunity to solve the problem is being overlooked, so at best reducing speed with 100% success, will reduce the road toll by ~20%. We still have a big problem Huston! Speed wasn't THE problem.

 

Failure to keep left is a leading cause of death on the roads - why and when do drivers fail to keep left - when overtaking is a leading cause. Why - because there is an impeding vehicle. Suddenly slow drivers feature as a causal factor in 2 leading categories of the road toll.

 

Following too close - another cause of accidents - well, the buck stops with the following driver you may say, but why and when do drivers follow to close?  When stuck behind an impeding driver. I could go on, but you are probably getting the picture. 




tripper1000
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  #2207144 29-Mar-2019 15:44
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It is about recognising that drivers are human, and so looking into the human factors (impatience, frustration, deadlines etc) that contribute to crashes. It is about realising that it is seldom true to attribute a crash to a single cause. 

 

It is about not modelling a slow driver as the perfect driver when most of the audience totally ignores this message because it is so patently false. 


shk292
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  #2207173 29-Mar-2019 16:49
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tripper1000:

 

It is about recognising that drivers are human, and so looking into the human factors (impatience, frustration, deadlines etc) that contribute to crashes. It is about realising that it is seldom true to attribute a crash to a single cause. 

 

It is about not modelling a slow driver as the perfect driver when most of the audience totally ignores this message because it is so patently false. 

 

 

This looks like an example of root cause analysis - keep asking "why?" until you find the root cause of the problem.

 

So, rather than stopping at "driver crossed centre-line", you ask "why?".  If the answer is to overtake, why did he need to overtake?  And so on

 

Why was the driver I passed on the northern motorway this morning driving at 80kph in perfect conditions, causing every car to have to change lane and overtake him?  Why was he driving with his window wide open at 0655?  Was he sleepy, hung over or just incompetent/unconfident?  The police needs to pull him over and find out, not fine the guy who goes 107kph to get past him.




FineWine
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  #2207183 29-Mar-2019 17:15
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My brand new 2019 Kia Sportage EX Urban has;

 

  • Emergency braking - well I have not tested this one
  • Forward collision warning - use it all the time for front-in parking, especially in my small garage
  • Rear Cross Traffic Alert - very handy due to the back right blind spot
  • Lane Keep Assist - very un-nerving and do not use it really. Its a novelty really to me as I prefer control

What they need to do now is program the forward cameras to act like dash cams do now and record to; M/Stick, upload to cloud or WiFi to phone and of course gather, collate and record all the front & rear video plus vehicle electronic data in 'Real Time' to a "Black Box". Black Boxes of course will be a legal mine field till some precedents are made as well as law changes.





Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.


Bung
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  #2207254 29-Mar-2019 18:43
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The limited black box history from a triggered airbag system in a car has already been used in NZ to prove that the driver had been doing an excessive speed. In the Hastings District Court the data was used to show that a Holden HSV had been doing 150km/hr 2.5 secs before the collision.

Technofreak
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  #2207272 29-Mar-2019 19:21
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elpenguino:

Cars will be limited in speed so they follow the posted limits.


Following posted limits doesn't guarantee safety at all. That was one of the points in my last post. There are many instances when sticking to the speed limit is dangerous, e.g. icy roads, heavy rain, fog etc, yet you still see some drivers not observing sensible speeds even though they may be complying with the posted speed limit.

elpenguino

No one is claiming the computer system will be perfect - it only has to be better than the meatsack...........

..........This argument doesn't stand up because by using technology humans are taken out of the decision making process



I'm not sure the computer has shown it's any better than the human. One big problem with this approach is the human loses the skill of driving and decision making and when the automation fails they are not well equipped to take over. It's a problem that is starting to become an issue in the aviation world.

elpenguino

But honestly, most kms people drive is pure drudgery.


I know I cannot speak for everyone but I drive 100 km to work and I enjoy the drive, in fact I look forward to it. I wouldn't enjoy it anywhere as much if it was automated.




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PhantomNVD
2619 posts

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  #2207406 29-Mar-2019 23:54
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Bring on driverless cars!

I would love to both arrive ina reasonable time (no traffic buildup due to stop start breaking) and be able to browse the net/read/watch a movie (etc.) on my commute to work each day.

Bonus points for ensuring my ADHD sons don’t ever get behind a wheel!!

 
 
 

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

gzt

gzt
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  #2207432 30-Mar-2019 09:17
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Geektastic: From The Times: All new cars will be fitted with devices that make sure they automatically keep to the speed limit in a move billed as the biggest overhaul of road safety in more than 50 years.

Within the next three years, models sold in Europe are expected to use technology that detects limits and slows down vehicles travelling too fast.

As already pointed out many new cars already have these features engaged by default when in semi-autonomous mode.

Mostly the reg is saying all cars must have this feature enabled by default for all driving and the feature can be overridden at any time by the driver - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47715415. #europanic.


GregV
928 posts

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  #2207552 30-Mar-2019 11:47
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old3eyes:

 

My Mazda CX5 has a camera built in to the windshield that reads the speed and other road signs on puts it on the heads up display.  It doesn't change the speed that the car is driving automatically. 

 

 

We've got some new-model Corollas at work, and while they read the numerical speed-limit signs well, they don't seem to recognise the open-road sign (diagonal black stripe).


Geektastic

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  #2207757 30-Mar-2019 17:31
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I read a further article which also suggested that the proposals will include making alcohol interlocks compulsory in all new cars as well.






Batman
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  #2207765 30-Mar-2019 18:35
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Geektastic:

 

I read a further article which also suggested that the proposals will include making alcohol interlocks compulsory in all new cars as well.

 

 

You can't fool that with a bicycle pump?


PDAMan
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  #2208053 31-Mar-2019 09:27
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Speed limiters worry me and I have spoken to people who have had the odd problem with them. Yes I know if you push the accelerator hard you can still override it, but sometimes that may be too slow.

 

I did both the Defensive Driving Course and the Advanced Driving Course required by a company many years ago for all staff with company cars. There were a number of occasions where the best defense in a situation was to slam your foot on the accelerator. If that were to be met with either an audible alarm or a pause before it hit, it could result in a serious incident. I would much rather have more speed cameras. I must say that I think Western European drivers (haven't been to East Europe) are much better and more courteous drivers than Kiwis. We also have lots of situations where we get stuck behind slow moving vehicles on highways which have loads of blind corners. We also have lots of those people who go slow in the overtaking lanes, which is one of the reasons people get frustrated and speed past them, perhaps at the last minute. 

 

Personally, I would rather educate or penalise poor driving behaviour so that people who want to drive safely at or around the legal limit can get reliable journeys and don't feel like they need to speed. 

 

My first thought with that story when I read it, was I'm glad I have an older car. 





Luigi
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Batman
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  #2208074 31-Mar-2019 10:26
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People going slow in the overtaking lanes in AKL are the least of my concerns

 

In the south island, you have people driving at 90kph on the open road, and if I get a dollar on every one of them speeding up to 110kph 400m before the overtaking lanes and holding that speed until 100m after the end of the lanes, I'd be a millionaire.


gzt

gzt
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  #2208127 31-Mar-2019 13:14
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PDAMan: My first thought with that story when I read it, was I'm glad I have an older car.

The BBC news article linked above indicates the standard has an on/off switch drivers can turn it off entirely.

SheriffNZ
671 posts

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  #2208131 31-Mar-2019 13:24
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Batman:

People going slow in the overtaking lanes in AKL are the least of my concerns


In the south island, you have people driving at 90kph on the open road, and if I get a dollar on every one of them speeding up to 110kph 400m before the overtaking lanes and holding that speed until 100m after the end of the lanes, I'd be a millionaire.



I specifically called my mother in law out on this. She wasn’t very pleased with me....

*shrug*

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