Petrol - I watch the pennies

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#2710857 21-May-2021 14:35

Batman: The dyno tests I've seen in car videos show single digit difference in hp for NA engines. Don't think anyone's brave enough to dyno forced inductions on 91

Look at the low down end of things rather than the maximum. That low end being gone and a CVT make things feel horrible with lower octane fuels in them. The difference in responsiveness and not feeling like you were wringing the thing to within an inch of its life all the time in a swift was signifigant.

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#2710887 21-May-2021 15:51

richms:

cshwone: Never used anything but 91 in my Sportage

91 in a high performance motor just cripples its performance. This is why you see so many nissan marches and similar driving so slowly and gutlessly around the place. No car made since the 90s should have 91 in it unless its a giant inefficient high displacement thing.

You sound quite authoritative here and I’m not - but I wonder about this. I had a 1.8l TSi Audi from new in 2014 until last year and it was stated to be OK on 91 RON or higher. I ran it on 91 the whole time I had it and it ran perfectly. I never had need to query its performance.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#2710888 21-May-2021 15:53

richms:

Batman: The dyno tests I've seen in car videos show single digit difference in hp for NA engines. Don't think anyone's brave enough to dyno forced inductions on 91

Look at the low down end of things rather than the maximum. That low end being gone and a CVT make things feel horrible with lower octane fuels in them. The difference in responsiveness and not feeling like you were wringing the thing to within an inch of its life all the time in a swift was signifigant.

Pretty sure my Corolla would be no different on 98 versus the thousands of litres it has on 91. I could probably do an experiment for several tanks. I've got 80,000km of data on 91. Fill it up with 98 for a month (my wallet will shudder) and see how much magical performance I get.

The Civic on the other hand has an old Integra Type R motor in it. Compression is likely just over 11:1 and sees very high rpm. The last engine builder said to run it only 98 after he'd finished on the dyno. 96 in an emergency and nothing less.

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#2710896 21-May-2021 17:19

For kicks and giggles - I've used 98 (full tank) in the past on both my Prius and Outlander PHEV, no noticeable difference in litres / 100km performance.

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#2710907 21-May-2021 18:06

I found the Camry Hybrids didn't switchover nicely on z91, while z95 is much smoother. Also no noticable change in L/100.
The newer Camry recommends 95 now while the previous model was 91 ok.

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#2710985 21-May-2021 19:58

Here's a strange one, the specs for a Kia car in Australia and other markets specify regular unleaded petrol, while in NZ specify "95 Octane or higher

Recommended fuel is based on NZ fuel standards and may differ from those in the Owner's Manual"

But regular in Aus is 91 Octane, the same as here. Why would a different grade be specified here to other markets? Is there something wrong with our petrol?

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#2711044 21-May-2021 21:23

richms:

91 in a high performance motor just cripples its performance. This is why you see so many nissan marches and similar driving so slowly and gutlessly around the place. No car made since the 90s should have 91 in it unless its a giant inefficient high displacement thing.

You’re having a larf, right? Are you saying the Nissan March has a high performance motor? And the reason we see so many Nissan Marches and similar driving so slowly and gutlessly around the place is because they’re driven mostly by cautious little old ladies - who I’m sure are lovely people but a PITA to other drivers who have to follow them around the suburbs at 32 kph. Nothing to do with the incorrect fuel.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#2711094 21-May-2021 21:57

The Fonterra Supercard is also great way to save a bit more than the traditional Fuel discounts... regardless of whether you use premium or regular.

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#2711096 21-May-2021 22:00

shk292:

Here's a strange one, the specs for a Kia car in Australia and other markets specify regular unleaded petrol, while in NZ specify "95 Octane or higher

Recommended fuel is based on NZ fuel standards and may differ from those in the Owner's Manual"

But regular in Aus is 91 Octane, the same as here. Why would a different grade be specified here to other markets? Is there something wrong with our petrol?

aussies won't buy it if 95?

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#2711107 21-May-2021 22:55

shk292:

Here's a strange one, the specs for a Kia car in Australia and other markets specify regular unleaded petrol, while in NZ specify "95 Octane or higher

Recommended fuel is based on NZ fuel standards and may differ from those in the Owner's Manual"

But regular in Aus is 91 Octane, the same as here. Why would a different grade be specified here to other markets? Is there something wrong with our petrol?

If anything there is something wrong with Aussie petrol. In short their 91 RON is allowed 150ppm sulpher (and 50ppm for 95 and 98). In NZ the limit 10ppm across the board.

Should note that Aussie often gets different spec cars than we do. An example I know of is the previous generation Mitsubishi outlander. NZ got a (too soft in my view) coilover rear suspension setup, where aussie got a coil and separate shock. I assume the Japanese brands try to match where they can with JDM markets for when the inevitable flood of used cars turns up.

Also the presence of used imports from japan, to NZ means that the market for bargain basement, hand crank window kind of stuff is pritty limited as in NZ those buyers pick up cheap used imports.

Globally North america (and Australia it seems) seem to have a strong preference for cars that run on regular (91Ron /87 AKI), where as in western europe, 95RON is the lowest octane available. As such most automakers have engines / tunes optimized for each market, and it is just a matter of picking what to deliver to NZ.

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#2711110 21-May-2021 23:30

AA says Japan market Nissan March 2008 1200cc requires 95:

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/ask-an-expert/fuel-and-economy/show/10348/

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#2711112 22-May-2021 00:15

Scott3:

----

Older Carbonated engine cars need to be run on whatever octane (or higher) fuel they were tuned for or they will be damage (no limp mode on these). "Performance" tunes generally set the car up so it gets the needs high octane fuel.

----

So, I am wondering where to inject the CO2?

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#2711113 22-May-2021 00:22

Scott3:

Should note that Aussie often gets different spec cars than we do. An example I know of is the previous generation Mitsubishi outlander. NZ got a (too soft in my view) coilover rear suspension setup, where aussie got a coil and separate shock. I assume the Japanese brands try to match where they can with JDM markets for when the inevitable flood of used cars turns up.

And open market 'E10' at the pump, from sugar cane too. Rather than something else labelled but with Ethanol not mentioned. so a bit more compatibility with running it.

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#2711115 22-May-2021 04:36

gzt: AA says Japan market Nissan March 2008 1200cc requires 95:

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/ask-an-expert/fuel-and-economy/show/10348/

Yes but I still reckon that the fact they go round at 32 kph is due to driving - not fuel choice.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#2711119 22-May-2021 07:52

Somewhat back towards the original post, I noticed last night that the new BP on Hobsonville Road had put its price down and Gull had dropped theirs to match it*. So there is hope that more competition is better, in my little corner of the world!

*All our vehicles run on 91, so that’s the only price that catches my eye.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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