Brake rotors - experience?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Brake rotors - experience?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

tripper1000

1618 posts

Uber Geek

#1821872 13-Jul-2017 13:42

cadman:

There's no need to machine rotors unless they're scored. It's a total rort to do it on every pad change - if a rotor is warped just replace them - they're usually not much dearer than the machining especially top hat front ones on FWDs.

Plus 1 this.

The main reason mechanics insist on machining is because the brakes are immediately 100% effective as machining negates the need to drive carefully until the pads bed in. Average people are not as technically minded as they were a generation ago, and your average punter can no longer be trusted to nurse the brakes while the new pads are bedding into old rotors. So to avoid law suits from people who contradict instructions and crash, mechanics protect themselves by insisting on machining every time.

Net result is that it shortens the life of the rotors.

tripper1000

1618 posts

Uber Geek

#1821880 13-Jul-2017 13:51

Coil:

OEM parts is generally the best for brakes.

I have found this to be true for Toyota's - they tend to have great brakes from the factory.

Holden's and Falcon's I have found this to not to be the case at all (can't say for HSV but certainly Std Holden and XR & Std Falcons). In my experience Holden's and Falcon's will go through 3 rotors in the same number of KM's that an OEM Toyota will go through a single set of pads.

cadman

1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1821900 13-Jul-2017 14:16

tripper1000:

Coil:

OEM parts is generally the best for brakes.

I have found this to be true for Toyota's - they tend to have great brakes from the factory.

Holden's and Falcon's I have found this to not to be the case at all (can't say for HSV but certainly Std Holden and XR & Std Falcons). In my experience Holden's and Falcon's will go through 3 rotors in the same number of KM's that an OEM Toyota will go through a single set of pads.

The sort of people that drive Falcons are not the same sort of people that drive Corollas.

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1821908 13-Jul-2017 14:21

tripper1000:

Coil:

OEM parts is generally the best for brakes.

I have found this to be true for Toyota's - they tend to have great brakes from the factory.

Holden's and Falcon's I have found this to not to be the case at all (can't say for HSV but certainly Std Holden and XR & Std Falcons). In my experience Holden's and Falcon's will go through 3 rotors in the same number of KM's that an OEM Toyota will go through a single set of pads.

Japanese cars are known to have very hard materials in their brakes, mostly because they are light vehicles (This subject goes very very deep but thats for another day). A Commie or Falcoon is a massive tank that generates a lot of heat and wear to stop. They generally put softer rotors and harder pads on to get the required braking force. Similar concept to the Europeans, But do remember your stopping 2 tonnes of aussie metal vs 1.3 of rice wafer.

richms

28192 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1821925 13-Jul-2017 14:44

My falcon has useless brakes. I asked the mechanic and they are working as they should for the grandpa model. If I have been driving the toyota for too long I for get when I am in the falcon that I have to push it so hard and end up a couple of meters over the line I was planning on stopping at some time.

Its not the crap tires because it never loses grip, just has the stopping power of a morris minor or something useless. Scary that the performance on the meters at the wof place are way way into the pass range on something so bad at stopping.

Richard rich.ms

tripper1000

1618 posts

Uber Geek

#1821964 13-Jul-2017 15:24

Coil:

Japanese cars are known to have very hard materials in their brakes, mostly because they are light vehicles (This subject goes very very deep but thats for another day). A Commie or Falcoon is a massive tank that generates a lot of heat and wear to stop. They generally put softer rotors and harder pads on to get the required braking force. Similar concept to the Europeans, But do remember your stopping 2 tonnes of aussie metal vs 1.3 of rice wafer.

Of course the brakes of a heavier car have to dissipate more energy, no doubt about that, consequently the brakes in a heavier car need to be correspondingly more capable, which I don't believe the Ozzie cars are. Holden's and Falcon's are notoriously under equipped in the brake department.

As you say the brakes are working a lot harder and they warp and wear much faster. If the factories were concerned about this they would equip their vehicles with better brake to weight ratio's (what ever unit of measure that is). I used to be a Ford man and the brakes was one of the big improvements I noticed when I got my first Toyota (lack of fading when driving the same routes at the same crazy speed, time between pad changes, never having to replace rotors anymore etc). Perhaps in an effort to provide reliability Toyota over-brakes their cars- ? I had 3 mates who at one point in time drove the same model of Falcon and warped rotors was a constant topic of conversation - One got sick of the situation and fitted uprated rotors (same diameter, same callipers etc) and the increase cost proved to be a good investment as he soon made the money back in saved brake repairs.

MikeAqua

7785 posts

Uber Geek

#1821979 13-Jul-2017 15:33

richms:

My falcon has useless brakes. I asked the mechanic and they are working as they should for the grandpa model. If I have been driving the toyota for too long I for get when I am in the falcon that I have to push it so hard and end up a couple of meters over the line I was planning on stopping at some time.

Its not the crap tires because it never loses grip, just has the stopping power of a morris minor or something useless. Scary that the performance on the meters at the wof place are way way into the pass range on something so bad at stopping.

FWIW replacing the rotors and pads on the Pajero (also well within WOF criteria) has made a dramatic difference to the braking. They were fine before but now they like a new vehicle.

It may be worth testing your brake booster. There are a couple of simple ways to do that.

The brakes shouldn't feel hard with the engine running
Run the engine, then shut it down and pump the brake pedal. It should get firmer with each pump
With the engine off pump the brake pedal a few times. Hold pressure on the brake pedal while starting the engine, it should drop slightly.
With the engine running press the brake pedal. Turn the engine off. The brake pedal should hold pressure without dropping for ~30 seconds

Mike

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1821984 13-Jul-2017 15:41

tripper1000:

Coil:

Japanese cars are known to have very hard materials in their brakes, mostly because they are light vehicles (This subject goes very very deep but thats for another day). A Commie or Falcoon is a massive tank that generates a lot of heat and wear to stop. They generally put softer rotors and harder pads on to get the required braking force. Similar concept to the Europeans, But do remember your stopping 2 tonnes of aussie metal vs 1.3 of rice wafer.

Of course the brakes of a heavier car have to dissipate more energy, no doubt about that, consequently the brakes in a heavier car need to be correspondingly more capable, which I don't believe the Ozzie cars are. Holden's and Falcon's are notoriously under equipped in the brake department.

As you say the brakes are working a lot harder and they warp and wear much faster. If the factories were concerned about this they would equip their vehicles with better brake to weight ratio's (what ever unit of measure that is). I used to be a Ford man and the brakes was one of the big improvements I noticed when I got my first Toyota (lack of fading when driving the same routes at the same crazy speed, time between pad changes, never having to replace rotors anymore etc). Perhaps in an effort to provide reliability Toyota over-brakes their cars- ? I had 3 mates who at one point in time drove the same model of Falcon and warped rotors was a constant topic of conversation - One got sick of the situation and fitted uprated rotors (same diameter, same callipers etc) and the increase cost proved to be a good investment as he soon made the money back in saved brake repairs.

Very fair points with experience behind it, I would agree with you on that basis. Sounds like they have brakes that are over worked. Ironically all my mates with performance Toyotas and Nissans get masses of grief from their brakes, One is running R33 GTR brakes on his R32 GTR and fades halfway to piha hahaha.

Yet to fade my BMW and i never managed to fade my B5 S4.

MikeAqua

"With the engine running press the brake pedal. Turn the engine off. The brake pedal should hold pressure without dropping for ~30 seconds"

The ol beema holds vacuum overnight without worry. Very common for vacuum leaks to go unnoticed and people disregard it as average brakes.

tripper1000

1618 posts

Uber Geek

#1825880 20-Jul-2017 13:45

Coil:

Very fair points with experience behind it, I would agree with you on that basis. Sounds like they have brakes that are over worked. Ironically all my mates with performance Toyotas and Nissans get masses of grief from their brakes, One is running R33 GTR brakes on his R32 GTR and fades halfway to piha hahaha.

Yet to fade my BMW and i never managed to fade my B5 S4.

I've taken my Altezza on the track 2 or 3 times and for the first 2.5 laps it gets eaten by the SS Commodores and Skylines, but then their brakes fade, so they slow down and brake early, which is when the Altezza is able to make up lost ground, brake late and start overtaking. Now the organisers limit the events to 3 laps to suit the big cars, which has taken the fun out of it for me, so I don't bother anymore.

You mates with performance Toyota's haven't done the old upgrade-to-a-V8-but-not-change-the-brakes trick have they?

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1825907 20-Jul-2017 14:22

tripper1000:

Coil:

Very fair points with experience behind it, I would agree with you on that basis. Sounds like they have brakes that are over worked. Ironically all my mates with performance Toyotas and Nissans get masses of grief from their brakes, One is running R33 GTR brakes on his R32 GTR and fades halfway to piha hahaha.

Yet to fade my BMW and i never managed to fade my B5 S4.

I've taken my Altezza on the track 2 or 3 times and for the first 2.5 laps it gets eaten by the SS Commodores and Skylines, but then their brakes fade, so they slow down and brake early, which is when the Altezza is able to make up lost ground, brake late and start overtaking. Now the organisers limit the events to 3 laps to suit the big cars, which has taken the fun out of it for me, so I don't bother anymore.

You mates with performance Toyota's haven't done the old upgrade-to-a-V8-but-not-change-the-brakes trick have they?

Definitely not a case of a power upgrade and leaving the brakes behind. The GTR fades the fastest with R33 GTR brake upgrade on it. Spirited driving for 30KM and they are gone.
Toyotas are similar, I wouldn't say the brakes are inadequate its more that they are being over worked.
Your little tezza weighs bugger all, has a tiny 4 banger that revs its nuts off, is 2wd and is running skinny tires. The GTR has 9" wheels running 265 sections on all 4, is 4wd, has a massive straight 6. Its gonna fade pretty much anything you throw at it in time..

Are you talking about Chrome Expression Sessions?

My fathers mate decided to buy a new Rust-Tang 5.0 gt spec (Heap of steaming sh1te sorry if anyone owns one lol)
He was going down the local straight a bit over a hundread mile and hit the picks and it did nothing. First thing he did was spend the big dolalrs on brembos and he was a happy camper. He just has to make it around a corner now. (he bought that Mustang with the idea he will have a faster car than dad. But nooooo)

tripper1000

1618 posts

Uber Geek

#1825985 20-Jul-2017 16:13

Coil:

Your little tezza weighs bugger all, has a tiny 4 banger that revs its nuts off, is 2wd and is running skinny tires. The GTR has 9" wheels running 265 sections on all 4, is 4wd, has a massive straight 6. Its gonna fade pretty much anything you throw at it in time..

Are you talking about Chrome Expression Sessions?

Nah, track days were private ones at an airfield - Top Gear Style. I was primarily interested in getting on the speed limiter during Mach Run's on the runway but unfortunately I missed those - they were doing 1/4 miles every time I went which is a dead loss in a N.A.

Weight wise the Tezza and R32 GTR are the same at 1430 kg (according to Wikipedia_ - more power to same weight ratio explains why it gets convincingly eaten in a straight line.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5