Price of Petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Price of Petrol

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#2103849 9-Oct-2018 11:29

MikeB4:

Fred99:

MikeB4: @sbiddle

https://gull.nz/fuel/regular-91/

"Gull Regular 91 Octane petrol meets the requirements of all spark ignition engines, contains no ethanol, and is less than 50 parts per million of sulphur. This means it is effectively the cleanest burning grade of petrol out there and compatible with all cars and boats in New Zealand designed to run on 91 Octane"

I don't like the way that statement is written. Sure - "designed to run on 91 octane" is stated later.

You're asking for big trouble if running a car specified to use +95 on 91. Even if it seems to run okay (no preignition etc). Many (particularly Euro) stratified direct injection petrol engine cars need high octane fuel. It gets messy when there are different variants of the same model on the used import market vs NZ new, some may be fine with 91 - others nope.

I will add one qualification though, if you do very low KMs and the car spends a lot of time idle using 95 in a 91 designed engine may help with fuel degradation as the 91 fuel does not have a long shelf life. It is often the cause of the petrol weed eater not starting after winter or the boat that has not been winterised not starting at the ramp, although you should have fired it up way before you took out on its first post winter blast, the busy Saturday ramp is an embarrassing place for your pride and joy to get petrol flu.

The Father is registered with the coast guard, at this time of year since he has the largest most powerful boat with towing capabilities he gets called a few times because people have sucked diesel bug into their launches and need to be towed home... Fun times..

sbiddle

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#2103858 9-Oct-2018 11:35

My Focus needs 95 to run. There have been multiple times over the years where I've put 91 in it for a number of reasons incl filling up at Mobil who don't have 95 at lots of sites and a few times we're I've been sucked in by a 25+ cpl difference between 91 and 95 due to discounting of 91.

The difference in performance is very noticeable when you're on a hill and the car simply isn't as responsive than it is with 95.

With the significant price difference between 91 and 95 in some areas it does make me wonder how many people use 91 simply because it's cheaper.

GV27

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#2103860 9-Oct-2018 11:37

SaltyNZ:

I'm not unsympathetic but those people live on the same planet I do.

I would've thought you would be glad to pay the regional tax, which will be used to improve public transport so that those other people you were concerned about can spend less on driving.

Those people are more interested in putting food on the table today as opposed to a 1.5 degree increase in global temperatures vs. a 2.0 degree rise in global temperatures in fifty years' time. I mean yea, broad over-arching emotional environmental platitudes are great, but when was the last time you had to chance another 20km on your fuel light so you could make it to a payday and put twenty measly bucks in the tank?

I'm glad to pay for improvements I can use, but I'm paying for them today, regardless of when they're actually built. Meanwhile, people in areas who already have gold-plated transport (i.e. Link buses etc) have the ability to mitigate the impact of said taxes. Unless infra is prioritised to those poorer areas, it's massively inequitable and essentially a movement tax on people not wealthy enough to live in inner-city suburbs.

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#2103861 9-Oct-2018 11:40

GV27:

Those people are more interested in putting food on the table today as opposed to a 1.5 degree increase in global temperatures vs. a 2.0 degree rise in global temperatures in fifty years' time. I mean yea, broad over-arching emotional environmental platitudes are great, but when was the last time you had to chance another 20km on your fuel light so you could make it to a payday and put twenty measly bucks in the tank?

The point is that it will be the poorest members of the community who are going to be hardest hit. When food prices go up, who gets hungry first?

I'm glad to pay for improvements I can use, but I'm paying for them today, regardless of when they're actually built. Meanwhile, people in areas who already have gold-plated transport (i.e. Link buses etc) have the ability to mitigate the impact of said taxes. Unless infra is prioritised to those poorer areas, it's massively inequitable and essentially a movement tax on people not wealthy enough to live in inner-city suburbs.

What makes you think they would improve the well served areas instead of the poorly served areas? Are you on the planning committee?

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeB4

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#2103862 9-Oct-2018 11:44

Makes me wonder in 2012 the price of crude was circa $US109.45 per barrell, the price of petrol in NZ was $NZ2.04 per litre . Crude 2018 is circa $US69.40 per barrell and petrol is circa $NZ2.44

GV27

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#2103865 9-Oct-2018 11:48

SaltyNZ:

The point is that it will be the poorest members of the community who are going to be hardest hit. When food prices go up, who gets hungry first?

What makes you think they would improve the well served areas instead of the poorly served areas? Are you on the planning committee?

I guess I must have been confused by the Greens campaigning for rail to the North Shore last year despite the North Shore already having rapid transit and no one else having it yet.

Or that the Council website about Light Rail mentions it's a 'Auckland Central' project and literally nothing about the North-Western line.

Or that additional services on the new CRL running pattern will stop at Henderson, despite the Council consenting thousands of houses at Huapai, Riverhead and Westgate.

Or the fact there's no train services at all past Swanson even though the line could be run all the way out to where all these new houses are going in.

Or that the Hobsonville Ferry still doesn't have any weekend services at all and stops after 6:15pm on weekdays.

Or that the inner city suburbs have 'special character' designation so that Ponsonby and Grey Lynn don't get the same infill housing that the rest of the city is expected to accommodate.

Looking back on it, I can't imagine how I got that idea at all.

Coil

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#2103866 9-Oct-2018 11:51

GV27:

SaltyNZ:

The point is that it will be the poorest members of the community who are going to be hardest hit. When food prices go up, who gets hungry first?

What makes you think they would improve the well served areas instead of the poorly served areas? Are you on the planning committee?

I guess I must have been confused by the Greens campaigning for rail to the North Shore last year despite the North Shore already having rapid transit and no one else having it yet.

That bus lane was only linked to the rest of the network with a real schedule a few weeks ago. Before that it was a pointless ghost town.
I've never used it apart from when going north on the intercity..
Finally Akoranga is the central point for Devonport/Takapuna and the suburbs across the motorway.. So that means I can get to the city or Albany on two busses instead of 3-4.

Cheers

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sbiddle

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#2103868 9-Oct-2018 11:53

allio:

I think this makes Jacinda's point. Gull New North Rd and Mobil Sandringham Rd were both at $2.30 this morning (as I sailed past on the bus). Meanwhile you're paying $2.64 somewhere else in Auckland. How is this the government's fault, and not a failure of competition?

It's not a failure of competition as such, it's what happens when you have incredibly intense competition. Discounting to compete with lower priced providers such as Gull means they need to subside that discounting by charging more elsewhere.

trig42

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#2103870 9-Oct-2018 11:56

MikeB4:

Makes me wonder in 2012 the price of crude was circa $US109.45 per barrell, the price of petrol in NZ was $NZ2.04 per litre . Crude 2018 is circa $US69.40 per barrell and petrol is circa $NZ2.44

I've often wondered about this too.

Back then, the fuel companies were saying that the high prices were because of the cost of crude.

What is their excuse now?

I have no issues with the tax on fuel - someone has to pay for the transport infrastructure we need (and Auckland has been neglected for over 50 years, so there is a hell of a lot of catchup to do). I do think the fuel companies are taking the p*ss.

MikeB4

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#2103874 9-Oct-2018 12:03

IMHO Oil companies will push it until there is a backlash then they will do a token reduction in the price. The sooner they are removed from the picture the better. I also believe that as EVs etc start to increase the Oil Cartel will artificially inflate price to compensate for sales volume drops and profit pressure, they will try and scree their customers until the bitter end.

sxz

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Ultimate Geek

#2103881 9-Oct-2018 12:24

Seems like it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I don't mind imposing, or paying a tax on petrol, at all. I am completely comfortable with the current trend.

I mean, we need tax, right? It's how we pay for our stuff? We need to remember the government is just us. Not them, us. We collect tax on petrol to pay for our roads. If we don't collect tax on petrol, we will need to collect it elsewhere, right? So does it matter where it comes from?

As an aside - cars are much more efficient now then 20 years ago. Of my first two cars between (owned 2002-2010) the first did 350km per tank on an 80l tank, the second did 450km per tank on a 65l tank. I now drive a car that does 800km on a 50l tank. So yes it sucks each time I fill up, but I am filling up much less often.

Finally - higher petrol costs will surely only further encourage alternatives. Electric cars, hybrids, cars with smaller engines, cycling, public transport. This is good.

GV27

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#2103886 9-Oct-2018 12:35

sxz:

Finally - higher petrol costs will surely only further encourage alternatives. Electric cars, hybrids, cars with smaller engines, cycling, public transport. This is good.

...which are fine if you can afford the EVs or hybrids, live close enough to your workplace or PT actually goes there or have the time and lifestyle where cycling or PT is actually an option.

Otherwise, you just suck it up and keep paying more and have less for other things, which are also going up because goods tend to need to be transported too.

MikeB4

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#2103889 9-Oct-2018 12:48

sbiddle:

My Focus needs 95 to run. There have been multiple times over the years where I've put 91 in it for a number of reasons incl filling up at Mobil who don't have 95 at lots of sites and a few times we're I've been sucked in by a 25+ cpl difference between 91 and 95 due to discounting of 91.

The difference in performance is very noticeable when you're on a hill and the car simply isn't as responsive than it is with 95.

With the significant price difference between 91 and 95 in some areas it does make me wonder how many people use 91 simply because it's cheaper.

That is something I am never tempted to do. Pre-ignition is a bitch and can destroy an engine.

sxz

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Ultimate Geek

#2103890 9-Oct-2018 12:48

Honestly, I'm constantly surprised how cheap petrol actually is, when compared to other products. When you think about what goes on to get it to your vehicle. The surveying, the set up costs & drilling, the refining, the transport, the storage, all the extra precautions you need to take at each stage because it has a tendency to catch on fire and explode, all before the sales to consumer in a very spread out network. On top of that, we know for a fact that (a) it's finite; (b) it's screwing our planet; and (c) there are other good options.

All that and petrol still works out to be about the price of a litre of coke or milk (or thereabouts), even including the $1 or so per litre the government charges in tax.

sbiddle

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#2103893 9-Oct-2018 13:04

MikeB4:

Makes me wonder in 2012 the price of crude was circa $US109.45 per barrell, the price of petrol in NZ was $NZ2.04 per litre . Crude 2018 is circa $US69.40 per barrell and petrol is circa $NZ2.44

The NZD / USD was up over 80c during parts of 2012 though. It's now 20% less.

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