RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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333 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3244237 4-Jun-2024 08:58

Geez the hand wringing in this thread is off the chart! I've never seen a group get so bent out of shape over an admin task.

Guess I'll probably get RUC today since June has rolled around. Got a WoF last week, no drama, RUC not mentioned. Last time I drove through a traffic stop and had licence/WoF looked at was years ago, haven't been pulled over in decades, no idea what all the drama is about re getting it done on time. If you guys stress out this much about getting WoF on time or rego renewed on time I'd hate to be around you if dealing with an actual problem!!

trig42

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#3244242 4-Jun-2024 09:20

Yep.

There will be a LOT of non-compliance.

There will be a LOT of people who overstated their Starting kms.

There will be a LOT of people who fall way behind.

That is the issue with the RUC system that the petrol tax system doesn't have. If you want fuel (petrol) for your car, you have to pay the RUCs.

The unfortunate thing is that the government doesn't have a choice with EVs and Heavy diesel vehicles. We/They have to pay for the use of the roads. Unfortunately, those who don't comply push up the process for the majority who do.

My feeling is that with EVs/PHEVs now having to pay, non-compliance will increase. Do we know for sure that once your kms have been recorded in the WOF system, NZTA will catch up with you, or is that just hearsay/urban myth? That would be the only way they have of forcing compliance. I've been pulled over for a random stop in my Diesel Sportage a couple of times, neither time has the policeman checked RUCs were current. I have current RUCs for my EV now as well, I suspect it'll be the same in that too.

dolsen

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#3244261 4-Jun-2024 10:09

trig42:

Do we know for sure that once your kms have been recorded in the WOF system, NZTA will catch up with you, or is that just hearsay/urban myth? That would be the only way they have of forcing compliance. I've been pulled over for a random stop in my Diesel Sportage a couple of times, neither time has the policeman checked RUCs were current. I have current RUCs for my EV now as well, I suspect it'll be the same in that too.

I can confirm that after a wof, if the milage recorded is higher than your paid up to date, you will receive a demand to pay with threats of debt collection. The WOF inspector misentered the milage when keying my wof into the system stating that I had higher mileage than the real one. I had to do a bit of work to prove that I was not over the milage (sending them the correct milage that was on the wof sheet) to get the correct one recorded. From memory, they only wanted it paid up, there was no penalty applied.

Many years ago, I was going skiing at Whakapapa ski field. They were only pulling over diesel vehicles and checking the mileage then, so, that is a thing they also do (or at least did several years ago).

Bung

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#3244262 4-Jun-2024 10:10

Unless it was linked to a better pay offer I don't think the average police officer is interested in being a revenue inspector. I don't know if wof recorded mileages are correlated but in the same way as no wof = no relicencing the wof could be conditional on having valid RUC.

Grunta47

94 posts

Master Geek

#3244264 4-Jun-2024 10:23

dolsen:

I can confirm that after a wof, if the milage recorded is higher than your paid up to date, you will receive a demand to pay with threats of debt collection.

From memory, they only wanted it paid up, there was no penalty applied.

My son had his diesel 4x4 serviced/WOF and his km's were over, so a couple of weeks later he got the letter to say purchase RUC's before xyz date or else.

2 months later a letter arrived with a fine, another demand to purchase km's and if he ignored there would be a second fine. He paid the fine and purchased RUC's that evening.

JPNZ

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#3244266 4-Jun-2024 10:41

trig42:

My feeling is that with EVs/PHEVs now having to pay, non-compliance will increase. Do we know for sure that once your kms have been recorded in the WOF system, NZTA will catch up with you, or is that just hearsay/urban myth? That would be the only way they have of forcing compliance.

I look after our vehicle fleet within the company I work for, I can tell you now its guranteed that once you have a WOF and the ODO is logged, if your RUC are under NZTA will send you a letter immediately. If you don't pay then you are fined.

This happens a lot and I'd expect it to happen a lot more now PHEV's and EVs are in the RUC system. I also expect police will be a LOT more vigilant around checking RUC's at random stops.

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Dingbatt

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#3244267 4-Jun-2024 10:44

smac:

Geez the hand wringing in this thread is off the chart! I've never seen a group get so bent out of shape over an admin task.

Guess I'll probably get RUC today since June has rolled around. Got a WoF last week, no drama, RUC not mentioned. Last time I drove through a traffic stop and had licence/WoF looked at was years ago, haven't been pulled over in decades, no idea what all the drama is about re getting it done on time. If you guys stress out this much about getting WoF on time or rego renewed on time I'd hate to be around you if dealing with an actual problem!!

So what level of law breaking becomes an “actual problem” in your book?

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trig42

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#3244268 4-Jun-2024 10:45

OK, thanks all.

I can see the number of letters they send going way up.

smac

333 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3244272 4-Jun-2024 11:04

Dingbatt:

So what level of law breaking becomes an “actual problem” in your book?

A problem for who??

Scott3

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#3244273 4-Jun-2024 11:19

Bung: Unless it was linked to a better pay offer I don't think the average police officer is interested in being a revenue inspector. I don't know if wof recorded mileages are correlated but in the same way as no wof = no relicencing the wof could be conditional on having valid RUC.

Not every workplace policy change needs to be linked to increased pay.

Anyway the Police are already tasked checking with checking revenue only items such as Rego & RUC's.

Should note RUC policing is is hardly a new thing. We have ~800k light diesels and ~150k heavy vehicles, so adding ~110k EV's and PHEV's represents only about a 12% increase in the RUC paying fleet.

The last time I was pulled over by police in a diesel vehicle, they checked and logged the odometer, so I assume EV's will just pick up the same policing treatment as diesel car's.

Shadowfoot

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Ultimate Geek

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#3244275 4-Jun-2024 11:28

JPNZ:

I look after our vehicle fleet within the company I work for, I can tell you now its guranteed that once you have a WOF and the ODO is logged, if your RUC are under NZTA will send you a letter immediately. If you don't pay then you are fined.

It looks like the system can be gamed by not paying it, getting WoF, receiving a letter to pay, paying to be just ahead of the current Odo reading and avoiding a fine, drive in arrears for nearly a year.

Skipping the warning letter and going straight to the fine would help slightly, but it would be a pain to deal with incorrect odo readings.

Alternatively, pay for RUC just before WoF and not get the letter/fine.

Without random checks, there wouldn't be a penalty. Police checks of WoF at checkpoints are about making sure safe vehicles are on the road, not revenue gathering.

People with good cash flow benefit from using the money until it's paid, while people without sufficient cash flow are fined. This needs to be sorted out before petrol cars move to RUC separate from petrol to avoid causing problems for people who need to budget payday to payday.

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Scott3

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#3244357 4-Jun-2024 12:44

Shadowfoot:

It looks like the system can be gamed by not paying it, getting WoF, receiving a letter to pay, paying to be just ahead of the current Odo reading and avoiding a fine, drive in arrears for nearly a year.

Skipping the warning letter and going straight to the fine would help slightly, but it would be a pain to deal with incorrect odo readings.

Alternatively, pay for RUC just before WoF and not get the letter/fine.

Without random checks, there wouldn't be a penalty. Police checks of WoF at checkpoints are about making sure safe vehicles are on the road, not revenue gathering.

People with good cash flow benefit from using the money until it's paid, while people without sufficient cash flow are fined. This needs to be sorted out before petrol cars move to RUC separate from petrol to avoid causing problems for people who need to budget payday to payday.

"Without random checks, there wouldn't be a penalty. Police checks of WoF at checkpoints are about making sure safe vehicles are on the road, not revenue gathering."

I disagree. Police check rego currency at these kind of stops. That's a revenue item, not safety, but if it is expired, they will be writing out a $200 fine. One of the police 10/7 style shows had an officer in the south island who specialized in RUC evasion (largely odometer switches), and covered his investigation of a ute he pulled over for something unrelated, and picked up an oddly low odometer increase.

For operating a light RUC vehicle with the ODO more than 500km above the Max distance on the license, the infringement is $200 ($3k for an individual on conviction)

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2012/0141/latest/whole.html

For the car owner, the only advantage of being a year in arrears is the time value of money. The government will ultimately get it's money, even if it is a year late.

Actual evasion (most likely ODO switches / tampering) seems to have be more of a concern for diesel vehicles.

Yeah, the current system does present issues in creating a debt trap for those who ignore a years worth of RUC's, and don't have the money to pay up when they get caught. Also the transaction fees and minimum block size presents issues for those who only put $20 of petrol in the tank at a time. Discussed at length over the prior 64 pages.

nova

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#3244389 4-Jun-2024 13:47

Shadowfoot:

It looks like the system can be gamed by not paying it, getting WoF, receiving a letter to pay, paying to be just ahead of the current Odo reading and avoiding a fine, drive in arrears for nearly a year.

The cashflow benefit of this is fairly minimal, you still have to pay it eventually, and you run the risk of a fine at a police check. For most people you are only gaining the interest on a debt of around $500 to $1000, which isn't likely to be more than $50.

The real problem right now is people fraudulently entering a starting odometer that is higher than the true odometer. I think if they rolled this out to all vehicles they would need to put a lot of checks and balances against this. It would be interesting to see how big this effect was for the EV rollout, if you saw a change in the average distance per day across the EV fleet before and after it would tell you something.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3244395 4-Jun-2024 14:08

Worth being aware that ACC is now making noises about not being able to balance their books. If that results in them taking a look at motor vehicle levies EVs may be in for a price hike.

Presently EVs are levied at the same annual rate as petrol vehicles but petrol also carries an ACC component which EVs obviously don't pay. Diesel carries no ACC fuel levy so are pinged within their annual rego charge, which hopefully isn't an indication of how they may address the EV shortfall.

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Scott3

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#3244400 4-Jun-2024 14:56

HarmLessSolutions:

Worth being aware that ACC is now making noises about not being able to balance their books. If that results in them taking a look at motor vehicle levies EVs may be in for a price hike.

Presently EVs are levied at the same annual rate as petrol vehicles but petrol also carries an ACC component which EVs obviously don't pay. Diesel carries no ACC fuel levy so are pinged within their annual rego charge, which hopefully isn't an indication of how they may address the EV shortfall.

That ACC website is stacked full of logical inconstancies.

We change petrol vehicle's ACC levies partially at the pump as the risk of a crash is linked with the distance driven.

But we just charge diesel's a lump sum. (because boats and farm equipment also use diesel)

Hybrids are classed as petrol, but are more efficient so just pay less.

EV's are classed as petrol (no reason given why).

Would make sense for their to be an ACC component built into RUC's for non petrol cars, but failing that it seems illogical that EV's are on the petrol rate, no the diesel rate.

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