Regional security screening

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sbiddle

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#2202784 21-Mar-2019 11:43

Who wins when security measures are implemented that cost big $$ when risk management simply doesn't deem a risk to be significant? The terrorists who have impacted our daily lives to the extent that regional air services will be cancelled, or the general public?

amiga500

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#2202823 21-Mar-2019 12:03

The problem is that tourists from the EU (including Britain!), & the USA, won't remember the short wait times or efficiency of NZ security, but they will remember remember being allowed onto an ATR 72 as if it's a bus, and being allowed to take liquids on board as if it's a bus.

I'm not a frequent flyer at all but I remember key things like the above & little details like being picked out for random manual bag searches at LAX, Heathrow, & the odd explosives checks at various airports. And I remember the long long lines and general chaos at LAX only too well. However, the memory of seeing manual bag checks being done is more vivid.

It can be justified any way you like but NZ does have standards re. liquids markedly different from many other countries who send tourists here in large numbers.

sbiddle

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#2202856 21-Mar-2019 13:59

amiga500:

It can be justified any way you like but NZ does have standards re. liquids markedly different from many other countries who send tourists here in large numbers.

And that goes back to one key thing - risk.

We also have very different risk profiles to many other countries. Our front line police aren't armed 24/7, we don't have metal detectors on every public building, we don't restrict public access to deemed prominent terrorist targets, and your every move isn't covered by CCTV just to name a few.

Have you ever considered that the lack of regional screening makes foreign tourists actually feel safer here?

It very much sounds like you want us to be America. I certainly don't.

amiga500

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#2202881 21-Mar-2019 15:30

sbiddle:

amiga500:

It can be justified any way you like but NZ does have standards re. liquids markedly different from many other countries who send tourists here in large numbers.

And that goes back to one key thing - risk.

We also have very different risk profiles to many other countries. Our front line police aren't armed 24/7, we don't have metal detectors on every public building, we don't restrict public access to deemed prominent terrorist targets, and your every move isn't covered by CCTV just to name a few.

Have you ever considered that the lack of regional screening makes foreign tourists actually feel safer here?

It very much sounds like you want us to be America. I certainly don't.

Tourists with a 'Pollyanna' mindset may feel safer, but the more realistic ones won't feel safer because NZ allows people to board ATR 72 size planes with zero security checks.

I certainly don't want us to be America just pointing out that our security standards are radically different to the USA, Britain, and the EU. Interestingly, even the most peaceful and stable countries in the EU adhere to the same standards as the rest of the EU.

amiga500

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#2202892 21-Mar-2019 15:52

sbiddle:

amiga500:

A little update about CHC. Black plastic sheeting has been added to the sides of the temporary fencing at the Regional Lounge departure area. A small indicator that it may be there for a while?

Or more the fact it's essential to stop items being passed through the fence - but this doesn't stop things from being thrown over the top.

Yes, I noticed that! In the International Area they have used what looks like bird netting to prevent anyone doing that.

amiga500

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#2203869 23-Mar-2019 17:01

https://onemileatatime.com/tsa-eliminating-security/

An interesting article on how the TSA is proposing dropping security screening on aircraft with 60 or fewer seats. It's provoked a lively debate. The comments are interesting as well - NZ is mentioned in the comments.

amiga500

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#2205117 26-Mar-2019 14:29

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111535267/extra-security-creates-chaos-at-christchurch-airport

As this extra security is only being done at CHC it can only be described as farce or theatre. As usual the authorities trot out platitudes such as the following:

"The appropriateness of current domestic security screening settings at airports other than Christchurch is the subject of ongoing review, as is always the case."

I wonder where we would be now regarding regional airport security if the mentally ill woman on the Blenheim to Christchurch flight had fatally stabbed the two pilots, & the plane had crashed with all killed?

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Technofreak

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#2205132 26-Mar-2019 15:06

amiga500:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111535267/extra-security-creates-chaos-at-christchurch-airport

As this extra security is only being done at CHC it can only be described as farce or theatre. As usual the authorities trot out platitudes such as the following:

"The appropriateness of current domestic security screening settings at airports other than Christchurch is the subject of ongoing review, as is always the case."

I wonder where we would be now regarding regional airport security if the mentally ill woman on the Blenheim to Christchurch flight had fatally stabbed the two pilots, & the plane had crashed with all killed?

It's pretty hard to stab two people at once. There are very effective techniques available to pilots for disabling a passenger who is likely to cause a problem like this. The chance of an attack like this causing a crash is so close to zero it's not worth worrying about.

Secure cockpit doors were fitted as a result of that crazy woman.

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amiga500

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#2205183 26-Mar-2019 16:44

Technofreak:

amiga500:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111535267/extra-security-creates-chaos-at-christchurch-airport

As this extra security is only being done at CHC it can only be described as farce or theatre. As usual the authorities trot out platitudes such as the following:

" aTheppropriateness of current domestic security screening settings at airports other than Christchurch is the subject of ongoing review, as is always the case."

I wonder where we would be now regarding regional airport security if the mentally ill woman on the Blenheim to Christchurch flight had fatally stabbed the two pilots, & the plane had crashed with all killed?

It's pretty hard to stab two people at once. There are very effective techniques available to pilots for disabling a passenger who is likely to cause a problem like this. The chance of an attack like this causing a crash is so close to zero it's not worth worrying about.

Secure cockpit doors were fitted as a result of that crazy woman.

I have little doubt that if the 1900D planes were still being used in NZ that someone in authority would explain why secure cockpit doors were not needed on that model.

The 'Sir Humphrey' who wrote "The appropriateness of current domestic security screening settings at airports other than Christchurch is the subject of ongoing review, as is always the case." would have it written before his first tea break.

(Just to clarify the 1900D planes in the USA either had no cockpit doors or very light weight doors that had to be kept open for take offs and landings as it was one of the emergency exits.)

Technofreak

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#2205187 26-Mar-2019 16:55

amiga500:

I have little doubt that if the 1900D planes were still being used in NZ that someone in authority would explain why secure cockpit doors were not needed on that model.

They couldn't be fitted. The fitting of a cockpit door also required having an emergency exit for the pilots. There was no practical way to fit a emergency exit. The Dash 8's and ATR have cockpit escape hatches.

They weren't needed in my opinion anyway. The pilots could inflict far more damage on any attacker than the attacker could inflict on the pilots.

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neb

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#2220262 17-Apr-2019 23:09

Coil:
amiga500:

The other change I noticed is that some police are now carrying rifles instead of the normal pistols. Pretty much what you'd see at Heathrow..

No idea why they do this.. Maybe as a visual deterrent. If an officer had to discharge that gun in an airport. You bet there is going to be collateral. Hand gun less so.

If it's like the US after 9/11 they won't issue them with bullets, so it won't make any difference if they're carrying a pistol, rifle, or antipersonnel mine.

neb

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#2220263 17-Apr-2019 23:14

sbiddle:
As for your claims above

One thing you didn't cover, the liquids thing: That's based on a reaction to media scaremongering rather than any actual threat. Unfortunately once any policy, no matter how silly, is put into place, no-one (in the US) wants to be the person to say it should be withdrawn. If it's been withdrawn in NZ then good on them for applying some common sense.

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#2245297 25-May-2019 12:04

If you think this is a hole in security, don't look closely at the cruise ships...

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