Marijuana legalization in New Zealand

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#2147636 19-Dec-2018 10:16

Bluntj:

Rikkitic:

Politicians should just get over their reefer madness obsession, admit they were sucked in by American propaganda, legalise the stuff, and just let people grow their own. Forget about regulation, or taxes, or any of that crap. Just make it legal and let people do what they want with it.

Politicians are representative of how kiwis think minus the fringe groups. It is the people you need to convince (and mostly always has been), who will then in turn influence the politicians.

If you want the referendum to pass, the legalise group needs to find some polarising people to front their campaign with whom Kiwis and the media will take seriously. This battle isnt about medicinal cannabis, but a quite different thing. I will almost guarantee now that the anti legalisation sector is already well advanced in their campaign strategies. This group will include community and religious leaders.

SO Rikkitic get started..imo you have a lot of work to do!!!

I agree, so we will get serious for and against messages, and the hardcore but not fringe for and against. The range will be large, from its fine, its not a drug that causes aggression as alcohol commonly does, to it will break up our country. Confusing for the public to filter that. There will be serious, and trustworthy commentators both sides. I'm sure there will be many very credible, trustworthy and sensible commentaries, for for and against

MikeAqua

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#2147702 19-Dec-2018 11:05

Bluntj:

Cannabis has become extremely difficult to source now due to the ability of gangs being able to produce crystal meth much more cheaply.

^^^This

Prohibition creates pressure to sell a product that is concentrated and simple to produce. That's why illegal alcohol manufacturers preferred spirits to beer or wine.

It used to be easy to get cannabis and MDMA (ecstasy) in NZ. Pot is not particularly concentrated and has to be farmed. Ecstasy is concentrated but is also complicated to manufacture. Meth is concentrated and relatively simple to manufacture.

So meth has largely superseded two drugs that are arguably less harmful.

Mike

kingdragonfly

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#2147704 19-Dec-2018 11:07

This is a battle for the average Kiwi mind.

It has to appeal to a 43 year old English speaking female European descent, who lives in an urban area, earning about $29,000.

"Let it grow wild and free of regulation" is guaranteed to lose a referendum.

While I agree that home-gown personal use should be allowed, the rules need to be spelled out. If you're growing more than a certain amount, there should be strict penalties. Otherwise it's not going to appeal to the average Kiwi.

Shakespeare: “Striving to better, oft we mar what's well.”

Voltaire: “The best is the enemy of the good.”

SJB

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#2147806 19-Dec-2018 14:28

Interesting article in the paper today. In Colorado, which legalized cannabis use in 2014, 40% of the supply still comes through the black market.

The article I read, which basically concluded that how the question is framed in the referendum is all important, also pointed out that if large corporations are involved in the supply of cannabis they will maximize profit by using the 80-20 rule so that 80% of the product is consumed by 20% of their customers. They will increase the potency and package it in different forms to make it attractive to consumers, especially young people.

So if it does become legal it seems as though regulation of the market is all important. I don't have a great deal of confidence in governments when it comes to subjects like that.

tdgeek

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#2148048 19-Dec-2018 19:28

A concern is if all the regulation, permits, inspections, compliances add to the cost, making the gangs version cheaper. Home growing would avoid a lot of this. Im not in favour, but the legalisation issue has less peril than what we have now, due to the gang influence. But then the gangs will focus on new revenue streams or bring down the cost of meth?

Rikkitic

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#2159649 12-Jan-2019 13:19

I also know people and they also represent a cross-section of society. Some think the case against cannabis is overstated and it should just be legalised. Most are more cautious, but also think it should be taken out of the criminal sphere. Some fear any change.

Some people are conservative by nature. In itself that is not necessarily a bad thing, but conservatives by definition don’t like change. Even if the status quo is less than ideal, at least it is something they know and are used to. The fear is that exchanging this for something unknown will actually make things worse. This seems to be one of the main arguments mounted by conservatives.

With something like cannabis, I have a strong sense (admittedly I don’t really know) that some of those who oppose reform decided long ago for whatever reason that cannabis must be bad (however ‘bad’ is defined) and therefore should be banned. Having come to that conclusion once, they are unwilling to reconsider it. Instead, they cast around for new arguments to justify it, a bit like Trump and his wall. Once we had ‘reefer madness’. No-one takes that seriously any more so in its place we are given ‘cannabis schizophrenia’. I don’t want to minimise this. It seems to be real. But how much of an issue is it really? Again, I don’t know, but Holland has had a relaxed attitude to cannabis use for years and I am not aware of an unusual excess of schizophrenics there. Other jurisdictions seem to have similar experiences. It is not like we are the first ones to consider this.

When civil unions and then marriage for same-sex couples was being considered, some of those opposed hysterically proclaimed that it would mean the end of society and civilised values. Marriage would be devalued. Morals would collapse. It would be Sodom and Gomorrah all over again. This was especially fierce during the civil union debate. Yet the sky didn’t fall. We didn’t drown in a sea of promiscuity. The institution of marriage is valued as much as ever, maybe more. I suspect something similar will happen with the legalisation of cannabis. In a few years people will wonder what all the fuss was about.

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FineWine

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#2159735 12-Jan-2019 14:39

This is an edited (and corrected) extract from a previous post I made in "Sick of pain meds, will cannabis be legalised th is year?" Topic. I had forgotten about this forum topic.

Again here is my $ worth.

Education is the key; publicly, parentally and all significant others including education institutions. The trouble is though this will more than likely have the same success/failure rate as alcohol education. We all know the effects of alcohol and alcohol is arguably the most widely consumed physiologically affective drug on the planet.

"But I didn't inhale and I never tried it again." We may or shall never know the private inner thinking's of our law makers. Will their vote be persuaded for; humanitarian, medical or government financial reasons. What some will do though is they will most certainly vote according to their next electoral prospects.

Anyway here are my personal thoughts on the matter and yes I have occasionally socially smoked weed in the past with my last toke being about 10 years ago with friends. I have never smoked it solo. I lived in Aussie for 30 yrs and knew where to safely acquire it from. I even grew one plant. It was not the best plant on the planet. Back here in NZ I would not have a clue how to SAFELY acquire it.

Do I support the personal use of cannabis, CBD & THC varieties ?, YES.

Do I support the personal growing of cannabis, CBD & THC varieties ?, YES. (similar to home brewing but set a limit on the number of plants eg: 3 or 4)

Can I share my personally grown cannabis with family and friends in the home environment ? YES (same as for home brewed alcohol)

Do I support an age limit ? YES (same as for alcohol)

Do I support prescribed medicinal CBD ? YES. Including babies where, for example, it has proven miraculous benefits in the treatment of epilepsy. It also decreases nausea and increases appetite especially beneficial in cancer patients and of course its miraculous pain relieving qualities. (being a retired paediatric nurse personal experience here).

Do I support legalised and watch-dogged retail cannabis outlets ? YES (known quality of product)

Do I support looser laws concerning legalised non THC hemp farming in NZ ? YES (I have 2 hemp t-shirts and a pair of hemp shorts that are 25 years old and apart from very slight wash fading they are still in exceptional condition)

PS: Interesting article here: Debunking the Hemp Conspiracy Theory

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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JimmyH

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#2160468 13-Jan-2019 19:41

For what it's worth, I think they should fully legalise it on the alcohol/tobacco model.

For the record, I don't consume it. Never have, and I can't see that changing if it was legal. Nor do I smoke tobacco. As far as substance abuse goes, a good glass of Pinot on a cool night, or an icy-cold craft beer on a summers night is about as far as I go. However, it is very prevalent and accessible already, and I know a number of people who consume it. They aren't dead-beats either, they are all successful professional types, with good jobs, and a couple of them are in pretty senior management roles. I'm fairy sure that if I did want cannabis all it would take is a few phone calls, and I could have some within a couple of hours.

Given that it's already so easy to get, I don't see what would be lost by having it available through regulated channels (and ideally home production as well). Anyone who wants it can pretty much get it now.

The gangs would clearly be the big loser from doing this, because as with all popular products under prohibition, the production and sale is big business for organised crime. So the incomes of Black Power, the Mongrel Mob, Satan's Slaves and sundry other outfits would take a big hit.

The gains would appear to be:

quality controls and meaningful age restrictions through legal sales channels
some excise and GST revenue for the Government
cutting into gang activity, through putting a major dent in their revenue
freeing up Police capacity to deal with other crime, like the production and distribution of P and synthetics, which are much nastier than cannabis
hopefully some substitution away from synthetics, which seem to be much nastier than the real thing
lots of young people not having their lives/careers ruined with cannabis criminal convictions.

Given how easy it is to get already, I doubt consumption would rise much. And my assessment is that the positives of full legalisation seem to greatly outweigh the negatives.

So unless anyone can come up with a compelling argument against it that hasn't been canvassed already, I think I would vote for legalisation in any referendum on this.

tdgeek

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#2160475 13-Jan-2019 19:56

My feeling is, is that regulation, quality control, will allow the gangs to sell cheaper. Or the gangs will offer harder drugs as better value.Gangs won't be replaced by GST collections, they will adapt to the market

Bluntj

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#2160552 13-Jan-2019 20:34

The way its going, medicinal cannabis(legal) will be not be affordable for most. The costs that these Companies have to go through is huge and they will want a return.

Rikkitic

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#2161981 16-Jan-2019 13:33

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/380223/meth-convictions-rising-but-cannabis-offences-down

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kingdragonfly

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#2162023 16-Jan-2019 14:41

I think it gets back to @MikeAqua point

Prohibition creates pressure to sell a product that is concentrated and simple to produce. That's why illegal alcohol manufacturers preferred spirits to beer or wine.

It used to be easy to get cannabis and MDMA (ecstasy) in NZ. Pot is not particularly concentrated and has to be farmed. Ecstasy is concentrated but is also complicated to manufacture. Meth is concentrated and relatively simple to manufacture.

So meth has largely superseded two drugs that are arguably less harmful.

FineWine

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#2162045 16-Jan-2019 15:28

The first business casualty and they are not even growers or providers.

Up in smoke: Kiwi cannabis firm in liquidation as founders battle - 15 Jan, 2019 5:00am

Brendon Ogilvy, the CEO of troubled cannabis company Medicann, hits back - 16 Jan, 2019 2:08pm

MediCann the website did not even get off the ground. NOT to be confused with MediCann in the USA but I think it had the same idea though.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

TeaLeaf

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#2172850 4-Feb-2019 16:17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Zealand_cannabis_referendum

"The New Zealand cannabis referendum will be a binding referendum, held at the 2020 New Zealand general election on the question of whether to legalise the personal use of cannabis."

So its definitely late 2020 now? I thought Labour would not want this during voting, there goes all your oldies votes who still think Nixon is alive.

Ok so its a binding referendum. To me that means Yes or No, and the question will be, should personal use of adults age xyz and above be allowed to consume and buy cannabis yes or no? Is that right or incorrect, will there be lots of little other questions like how much, can they grow plants?

Because the referendum is not about medicinal Canabis, that will be through by the time this gets voted.

This is for personal use.

And does binding mean if 35% vote yes, 20% no and the rest not sure, does that mean it is put through as law, is that what binding means?

TeaLeaf

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#2172853 4-Feb-2019 16:21

Bluntj:

The way its going, medicinal cannabis(legal) will be not be affordable for most. The costs that these Companies have to go through is huge and they will want a return.

Its not, its approx $35 per week. And its just CBD oil which doesnt give any uplifting properties. Smoking high CBD strains like ACDC or 5:3 CBD to THC makes sense for many illnesses, mostly certainly for pain that causes depression. But Im not a doctor. IMO CBD oils are a waste of time. Check out the health threads for more info.

Thats why its important this referendum is for personal use. From there a platform can be built upon.

One other thing I thought of, I did the Euthanasia referendum occur, because it looks like bills are being drawn up for that, which I personally think in this day and age is also a good thing. Each to their own and we would all get along a lot better.

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