Covid19 Different political parties views.

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#2463343 16-Apr-2020 12:13

NumPy:

BarTender:

Shouldn't leadership of purely token gestures come from the opposition who aren't running this thing?

Got to disagree, leadership should come from government who should set the example for others to follow, not opposition.

Leadership can come from anywhere. It does not have to come from the top. Indeed, good leaders at the top will look for and encourage leadership from all over their organisation. So nothing was stopping opposition parties leading here and doing it before the government did. Well nothing other than maybe a lack of leadership in those parties ;-)

Now...I do agree the government need to lead us through this crisis. Very subtly different.

freitasm

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#2463348 16-Apr-2020 12:22

@ezbee:

Concerning the Guardian article .

Commenting from a distance you get a lot of perception and much less reality , they can be wildly positive and wildly negative.
(Naturally unless they are following NZ closely over time they).

They probably had no idea of recent example where press asked why are you not putting a freeze on commercial rents.

The article was written by Bryce Edwards, a Wellington-based Victoria Uni Professor. So there's no distance.

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ezbee

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#2463390 16-Apr-2020 12:34

freitasm:

@ezbee:

Concerning the Guardian article .

Commenting from a distance you get a lot of perception and much less reality , they can be wildly positive and wildly negative.
(Naturally unless they are following NZ closely over time they).

They probably had no idea of recent example where press asked why are you not putting a freeze on commercial rents.

The article was written by Bryce Edwards, a Wellington-based Victoria Uni Professor. So there's no distance.

Heh, Heh, Seems he has not done well under 3 weeks of isolation !

Lost his link with reality, spending too much time with mistress hyperbole .

Oh well we will need to beef up mental heath resources to help people through and out of this think.

We will all need a bit of care after this .

tdgeek

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#2463397 16-Apr-2020 12:56

ezbee:

Oh by the way is Steven Joyce solidifying direction that National will continue to develop.

From Herald.

Former finance minister Steven Joyce says it is a "pie in the sky" fantasy to suggest New Zealand can eliminate Covid-19 and remaining in lockdown would cause "massive" economic damage.

Thats scary. If National was in power and he was MoF, its clear what our response would be. Paul Goldsmith, who appears to be lowly qualified for the finance role, scarier. Health is not a priority, it seems to be a necessary evil. No balance whatsoever. At least the current Govt, while favouring the social side, is balancing the health and economic problems. Im sure John Key or Bill English would be far more balanced than what National has shown to offer in this crisis.

GV27

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#2463418 16-Apr-2020 14:04

Noted hotbed of right wing academia Victoria university...

I echo Bill English being far more capable than any of the current National mob - his wife is a GP, he was on the verge of unveiling his social investment strategy in the following term and was the first finance minister in yonks to increase benefits. Suggesting he somehow would have knowingly chucked New Zealanders under the bus in order to facilitate praising Jacinda does them both a disservice IMO, and if anything, trivialises Ardern's command of the situation (regardless of the actual actions taken).

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#2463479 16-Apr-2020 14:52

tdgeek:

ezbee:

Oh by the way is Steven Joyce solidifying direction that National will continue to develop.

From Herald.

Former finance minister Steven Joyce says it is a "pie in the sky" fantasy to suggest New Zealand can eliminate Covid-19 and remaining in lockdown would cause "massive" economic damage.

Thats scary. If National was in power and he was MoF, its clear what our response would be. Paul Goldsmith, who appears to be lowly qualified for the finance role, scarier. Health is not a priority, it seems to be a necessary evil. No balance whatsoever. At least the current Govt, while favouring the social side, is balancing the health and economic problems. Im sure John Key or Bill English would be far more balanced than what National has shown to offer in this crisis.

I suggest you take the time to listen to the podcast referenced in the article rather than react to the single sentence in the Herald. Even reading the entire Herald article would be start, because he also said the level 4 lockdown was necessary. Might not suit your narrative though.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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tdgeek

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#2463481 16-Apr-2020 14:59

Dingbatt:

I suggest you take the time to listen to the podcast referenced in the article rather than react to the single sentence in the Herald. Even reading the entire Herald article would be start, because he also said the level 4 lockdown was necessary. Might not suit your narrative though.

My narrative was what a virus response would look like under Steven Joyce, Paul Goldsmith and Simon Bridges, noting that BE and JK would have more balance between health outcomes and the economy.

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#2463483 16-Apr-2020 15:02

GV27:

Noted hotbed of right wing academia Victoria university...

I echo Bill English being far more capable than any of the current National mob - his wife is a GP, he was on the verge of unveiling his social investment strategy in the following term and was the first finance minister in yonks to increase benefits. Suggesting he somehow would have knowingly chucked New Zealanders under the bus in order to facilitate praising Jacinda does them both a disservice IMO, and if anything, trivialises Ardern's command of the situation (regardless of the actual actions taken).

Are you replying to my post that is above yours? I praised them both for being far more balanced than the three National people I mentioned.I he no idea how that means chucking Kiwis under the bus, or what it has to do with the current PM

Dingbatt

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#2463497 16-Apr-2020 15:03

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

I suggest you take the time to listen to the podcast referenced in the article rather than react to the single sentence in the Herald. Even reading the entire Herald article would be start, because he also said the level 4 lockdown was necessary. Might not suit your narrative though.

My narrative was what a virus response would look like under Steven Joyce, Paul Goldsmith and Simon Bridges, noting that BE and JK would have more balance between health outcomes and the economy.

Then re-read your first two sentences, because without having listened to the podcast they are ill-informed.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

GV27

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#2463577 16-Apr-2020 16:06

tdgeek:

Are you replying to my post that is above yours? I praised them both for being far more balanced than the three National people I mentioned.I he no idea how that means chucking Kiwis under the bus, or what it has to do with the current PM

I was agreeing with you :) I have however seen plenty of 'Jacinda is the ONLY one who could lead us in this crisis, thousands would be dead if the Nats were in charge!' which is patently ridiculous.

E: I would have had faith in any of Key, English, Robertson or Ardern to listen to key scientific advisers, but almost none of the current Nat senior MPs and ditto past 3 on the list for Labour.

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#2463584 16-Apr-2020 16:11

GV27:

tdgeek:

Are you replying to my post that is above yours? I praised them both for being far more balanced than the three National people I mentioned.I he no idea how that means chucking Kiwis under the bus, or what it has to do with the current PM

I was agreeing with you :) I have however seen plenty of 'Jacinda is the ONLY one who could lead us in this crisis, thousands would be dead if the Nats were in charge!' which is patently ridiculous.

It would be, yes. Nats would have been much less vigorous, but at the end of the day, The PM isn't running this show, MoH is.

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#2463587 16-Apr-2020 16:12

freitasm:
Whoa. Read an article on The Guardian about the New Zealand government's response to COVID-19. The author makes it look like Putin is running this country...

The political system worked. But one of the ironies of putting the country into lockdown is we now have a system in which democracy is being debased. Civil liberties have been significantly curtailed, parliament adjourned, and the normal operations of the media are greatly restricted, meaning less public access to information.

That means the combination of civil society, media and the parliamentary system that normally keeps a check on government and authorities is now seriously weakened. This may be necessary given the dire threat posed by Covid-19, but it’s also dangerous for democracy and decision-making while the crisis is unresolved.

There were already serious democratic deficits in New Zealand – most notably, a concentration of political power, access for vested interests and a lack of public participation in politics. These have been accelerated.

Seriously, some people must be living in a different country.

Reading this in NZ and as someone who thinks the government has done a pretty good job in the circumstances, with improvements possible.

Imo the article is a useful perspective. This is a few weeks at level four. Imagine a pandemic situation where we need to go longer or higher. In that scenario our institutions must continue to function at a normal level. To a large extent I think we could do that with existing technology and systems. It would be very challenging, and it's likely laws and regulations would need to be flexible to make it possible.

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#2463596 16-Apr-2020 16:33

ignoring POTUS's handling of the virus in the US for a moment, i found this. I too would like to know exactly the origin of the virus (the missing bit about how it went from bat to Wuhan market), which I am very sure, over time, will be found out.

is ABC news politically affiliated or neutral?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-senators-starting-probe-demand-turn-details-covid/story?id=70149468

Fred99

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#2463671 16-Apr-2020 18:14

Batman:

I too would like to know exactly the origin of the virus (the missing bit about how it went from bat to Wuhan market), which I am very sure, over time, will be found out.

I'm not sure if it ever will be. But that's no reason to buy in to the delusional conspiracy theories being propagated in the USA in hapless attempts to explain their "worst in the World" handling of the pandemic.

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#2463678 16-Apr-2020 18:21

Batman:

is ABC news politically affiliated or neutral?

ABC, like most media organisations in America, is conservative by our standards, but not rabidly so. Because of that, they are seen by the Fox/Trump brigade as part of the great conspiracy.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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