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GV27
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  #2335488 11-Oct-2019 11:39
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MikeB4:

 

He was a whiskey fueled nut case that came within a whisker of ruining this nation. The government had circa 30 days funding remaining and at risk of not being able to pay the public service payroll and defaulting on debt repayment. The country was on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

To make matters worse he drove a Rover 3500, unforgivable.

 

 

The Rover thing is pretty terrible tbh.

 

But what would you do in his case? His answer to global economic headwind was to try and make the country more self-sufficient and develop infrastructure. The difference between his mob and the current lot is he actually spent the money to try and do it, and it didn't pan out. If it did, NZ could have been a Norway or a Finland, but that's not how it went down.

 

I'll also note the whole devaluation crisis was caused because he didn't trust the advice coming out of Treasury that Lange was getting, and drew on his considerable experience to refuse to devalue. In one of his books - I can't remember which one - he made a pretty convincing case that he thought Treasury were off their nut and pointed to the later reforms as evidence that Lange was better at dressing up what he was being told as fact than the Treasury were at putting together sound advice. I can't recall whether he explicitly said it was done with the aim to curry favour with the new PM-elect but I believe he strongly suggested it. Hard to believe he would be a beacon of state sector neutrality now and then, but that's a much less sexier anecdote than drunkenly calling a snap election. Ironically, he and Clark shared a lot of traits as leaders but Muldoon is always held up as some sort of bogeyman.

 

I can't defend the abysmal abuses of executive power, but just note that his interventions in the economy were made on principal and actually carried out. Currently we have a minister handing out Government money and telling industry players to vote for him if they want it to continue, with little scrutiny or oversight from the PM, and that's pretty much it.




MikeB4
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  #2335522 11-Oct-2019 13:18
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New Zealand Prime Ministers of recent time that I have regard for are...

 

Sir Keith Holyoake
Norman Kirk
David Lange
Jim Bolger
Sir William English
Jacinda Ardern

 

I believe that these leaders had at heart the good of the nation and our people, three of them also had a genuine regard for global well being.


GV27
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  #2335528 11-Oct-2019 13:23
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MikeB4:

 

I believe that these leaders had at heart the good of the nation and our people, three of them also had a genuine regard for global well being.

 

 

Funny, that looks like a list of leaders who talked about stuff more than they did the stuff they talked about 😜




Mahon
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  #2335545 11-Oct-2019 14:07
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

I believe that these leaders had at heart the good of the nation and our people, three of them also had a genuine regard for global well being.

 

 

Funny, that looks like a list of leaders who talked about stuff more than they did the stuff they talked about 😜

 

 

Especially the one at the bottom. Whilst her intentions are good, she is a very weak leader. Most of what she says doesnt equate to what gets done.


Rikkitic
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  #2335563 11-Oct-2019 14:18
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Mahon:

 

Especially the one at the bottom. Whilst her intentions are good, she is a very weak leader. Most of what she says doesnt equate to what gets done.

 

 

Good leadership starts with good intentions. I don't see a problem.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


GV27
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  #2335564 11-Oct-2019 14:19
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Rikkitic:

 

Mahon:

 

Especially the one at the bottom. Whilst her intentions are good, she is a very weak leader. Most of what she says doesnt equate to what gets done.

 

 

Good leadership starts with good intentions. I don't see a problem.

 

 

When you're slating others for inaction about various issues, it generally helps if you're capable of more than just flailing. 


MikeB4
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  #2335565 11-Oct-2019 14:22
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She has done more for minorities than most of our past leaders and she is done more for our international image than anyone has done since Norman Kirk or David Lange


 
 
 
 

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Rikkitic
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  #2335570 11-Oct-2019 14:31
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GV27:

 

When you're slating others for inaction about various issues, it generally helps if you're capable of more than just flailing. 

 

 

I actually don't understand what your point is here, but the speed of your response suggests you must have had it waiting all ready to go.

 

Not sure who I am supposed to be 'slating', or what the issues are, but I'm sure you will be glad to fill that in. Also not sure why you think I'm flailing. My targets are generally specific, and chosen with care.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


GV27
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  #2335578 11-Oct-2019 14:44
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MikeB4:

 

She has done more for minorities than most of our past leaders and she is done more for our international image than anyone has done since Norman Kirk or David Lange

 

 

Cool. How does that help me buy a house or get to work?

 

Lorde has also done wonders for our international profile. I don't expect an international recording artist to deliver on housing reform or transport or migration or whatever, but I do expect the Prime Minister who campaigned on those things to deliver in them in a self-proclaimed 'year of delivery'. 

 

Stop me if I'm being too rash.


MikeB4
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  #2335581 11-Oct-2019 14:45
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Mahon:

 

 

 

Especially the one at the bottom. Whilst her intentions are good, she is a very weak leader. Most of what she says doesnt equate to what gets done.

 

 

She is the Prime Minister and unlike a lot of leaders she is not trying to be the Minister of everything


GV27
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  #2335583 11-Oct-2019 14:46
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Rikkitic:

 

Not sure who I am supposed to be 'slating', or what the issues are, but I'm sure you will be glad to fill that in. Also not sure why you think I'm flailing. My targets are generally specific, and chosen with care.

 

 

Not you, Rikkitic. The entire Labour campaign was based on National neglecting this and failing to do anything about that, and it was a big part of them getting elected.  


MikeB4
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  #2335592 11-Oct-2019 14:51
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

She has done more for minorities than most of our past leaders and she is done more for our international image than anyone has done since Norman Kirk or David Lange

 

 

Cool. How does that help me buy a house or get to work?

 

Lorde has also done wonders for our international profile. I don't expect an international recording artist to deliver on housing reform or transport or migration or whatever, but I do expect the Prime Minister who campaigned on those things to deliver in them in a self-proclaimed 'year of delivery'. 

 

Stop me if I'm being too rash.

 

 

I am sure you can get to work. As for buying a house what exactly do want from the Prime Minister.  As for housing in general I think one has to look more at the muppets running no attempting to run building companies and failing badly. One thing I do believe the government could do to help with housing is to do a comprehensive review and reform of the fiasco that is local government.


Mahon
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  #2335597 11-Oct-2019 14:56
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Rikkitic:

 

Mahon:

 

Especially the one at the bottom. Whilst her intentions are good, she is a very weak leader. Most of what she says doesnt equate to what gets done.

 

 

Good leadership starts with good intentions. I don't see a problem.

 

 

 

 

Intentions dont make a PM or a leader. Surely most of us have good intentions. Of course she means well, and is articulate in what she says. So much of what she says doesnt happen, and she seems to NOT be in control of her Ministers. I stand by my comment that she is a weak leader.


Rikkitic
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  #2335599 11-Oct-2019 14:57
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GV27:

 

Not you, Rikkitic. The entire Labour campaign was based on National neglecting this and failing to do anything about that, and it was a big part of them getting elected.  

 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that the government has dropped the ball on many issues. I agree that the buck stops with the PM. That is her responsibility, but I don't agree that it is always her fault. I don't agree that she is a 'weak' leader. Unfortunately she is also hamstrung by her coalition. Maybe she made some bad judgements when that deal was being set up. I don't know. She certainly made some bad minister choices, but I guess the pool is limited. I would like to see what might happen if Labour won an election outright and didn't have to take account of NZ First and the Greens, especially NZ First, who have kneecapped the government at every opportunity. But of course that will never happen.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


tdgeek
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  #2335612 11-Oct-2019 15:07
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Rikkitic:

 

GV27:

 

Not you, Rikkitic. The entire Labour campaign was based on National neglecting this and failing to do anything about that, and it was a big part of them getting elected.  

 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that the government has dropped the ball on many issues. I agree that the buck stops with the PM. That is her responsibility, but I don't agree that it is always her fault. I don't agree that she is a 'weak' leader. Unfortunately she is also hamstrung by her coalition. Maybe she made some bad judgements when that deal was being set up. I don't know. She certainly made some bad minister choices, but I guess the pool is limited. I would like to see what might happen if Labour won an election outright and didn't have to take account of NZ First and the Greens, especially NZ First, who have kneecapped the government at every opportunity. But of course that will never happen.

 

 

 

 

Assuming both parties fail to reach 50% next year, I would like them both to decline NZF Its not worth it. If NZF wants to not play the game, that will end them. Fair play they got some stuff for becoming a coalition partner, but they have squeezed out far more than their seat share warranted.


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