Our new coalition government.

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#2337369 15-Oct-2019 12:37

I would rather see the Nats and Labour put more money into alternatives to roads such as improving safety for cyclists in cities and urban areas, improving intercity rail options.

Mahon

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#2337480 15-Oct-2019 15:43

sir1963:

Mahon:

Fred99:

tdgeek:

So you feel that Nats policies this election will be vague one liners such as we will grow the economy and fix transport?

Yes.

It seems to be working according to polls, so why change tack?

A much better strategy than promising many things and delivering very little. National has already announced a few new policies so far including tax relief, cancer strategy, restarting roads of national significance. You dont announce major new policies until closer to election. You should know that!!

Shane Jones handling a banned automatic rifle is another good look. I didnt see the 1billion in his back pocket.

Jacinda can fix this slump by showing leadership and tightening up on her cowboy/girl Ministers. Immigration Minister needs to be removed for a start.

Sadly, she will be holding back for a massive spendup in election year which she doesnt think the voters will see through.

So what are the Nats going to throw away for the tax cuts ?

Health, education ?, go back to beneficiary bashing ?, or are they going to raise the costs of a whole pile of other things like road taxes, passport fees, school fees, etc etc etc, you know stealth increases.

The money MUST come from somewhere, unless of course they intend to raise debt.

There is raising the retirement age I guess.

The money for tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

Fred99

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#2337533 15-Oct-2019 17:12

Mahon:

The money for tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

This time it's not really bracket creep so much as increased GST collection and company taxes, and improved collection of income tax.

Bracket creep was rampant in times of high inflation and high wage growth - not so much over recent years.

tdgeek

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#2337638 15-Oct-2019 18:19

Mahon:

The money for tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

I have fully believed in tax creep adjustments. To call it tax cuts and in election year is grossly misleading.

Its very clear that ANY tax is evil, based on this thread and the public comments. So Im happy with zero extra taxes of any sort. ZERO. But please don't complain when we cannot afford what we want to happen now

tdgeek

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#2337639 15-Oct-2019 18:20

Mahon:

The money for SOME tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

FTFY

Mahon

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#2337658 15-Oct-2019 18:49

tdgeek:

Mahon:

The money for tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

I have fully believed in tax creep adjustments. To call it tax cuts and in election year is grossly misleading.

Its very clear that ANY tax is evil, based on this thread and the public comments. So Im happy with zero extra taxes of any sort. ZERO. But please don't complain when we cannot afford what we want to happen now

NZ has had quite large wage growth for some years since last tax cuts. At least one of the parties is recognising over taxing and offering tax cuts which will correct it. I would prefer to an automatic correction in place which would mean we are not overtaxing our already overtaxed middle income earners as usual. It has always been called tax cuts in election year for as long as I can recall.

I am all for fair tax. But collecting massive surpluses when the electorate is screaming for improvements is not the way either.

sir1963

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#2337725 15-Oct-2019 21:14

Mahon:

tdgeek:

Mahon:

The money for tax cuts comes from tax creep as more and more people enter the higher tax bracket. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does. This means that the tax cut increases dramatically over time. Some call it over taxing. They propose to raise retirement age over many many years.

I have fully believed in tax creep adjustments. To call it tax cuts and in election year is grossly misleading.

Its very clear that ANY tax is evil, based on this thread and the public comments. So Im happy with zero extra taxes of any sort. ZERO. But please don't complain when we cannot afford what we want to happen now

NZ has had quite large wage growth for some years since last tax cuts. At least one of the parties is recognising over taxing and offering tax cuts which will correct it. I would prefer to an automatic correction in place which would mean we are not overtaxing our already overtaxed middle income earners as usual. It has always been called tax cuts in election year for as long as I can recall.

I am all for fair tax. But collecting massive surpluses when the electorate is screaming for improvements is not the way either.

And just how much do you think any individual is over taxed ?

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ajobbins

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#2337828 16-Oct-2019 00:16

Mahon:. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does.

Australia does not adjust brackets annually either. The only thing I can think of that's adjusted annually (twice annually in fact) is age pension payments, which are indexed to either CPI or wage growth index, whichever is higher.

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Mahon

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#2338010 16-Oct-2019 11:12

ajobbins:
Mahon:. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does.

Australia does not adjust brackets annually either. The only thing I can think of that's adjusted annually (twice annually in fact) is age pension payments, which are indexed to either CPI or wage growth index, whichever is higher.

Anyways, all tax cuts do is to correct this creep a little....all governments/parties do it.

sir1963

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#2338016 16-Oct-2019 11:22

Mahon:

ajobbins:
Mahon:. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does.

Australia does not adjust brackets annually either. The only thing I can think of that's adjusted annually (twice annually in fact) is age pension payments, which are indexed to either CPI or wage growth index, whichever is higher.

Anyways, all tax cuts do is to correct this creep a little....all governments/parties do it.

Actually the tax cuts have benefitted the wealthy.

The could index the brackets and push each bracket up a few thousand each year, but for people earning a lot of money it is irrelevant .

Having a tax cut from 39% down to 33% however made a huge difference.

Either way though, I don't want a tax cut. I want a good healthcare system, education system, law and order, biosecurity, etc etc etc etc and each and every year these cost more so guess what, governments need more money anyway. And if they have a bigger surplus, then pay off some debt.

GV27

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#2338096 16-Oct-2019 13:11

sir1963:

Either way though, I don't want a tax cut. I want a good healthcare system, education system, law and order, biosecurity, etc etc etc etc and each and every year these cost more so guess what, governments need more money anyway. And if they have a bigger surplus, then pay off some debt.

I also want those things, but I also don't see why we should tolerate inflated costs to service the state. If the Government has a surplus, that's money taxpayers don't have to make ends meet. When their costs inflate, they have to do without.

Mahon

473 posts

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#2338098 16-Oct-2019 13:19

sir1963:

Mahon:

ajobbins:
Mahon:. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does.

Australia does not adjust brackets annually either. The only thing I can think of that's adjusted annually (twice annually in fact) is age pension payments, which are indexed to either CPI or wage growth index, whichever is higher.

Anyways, all tax cuts do is to correct this creep a little....all governments/parties do it.

Actually the tax cuts have benefitted the wealthy.

The could index the brackets and push each bracket up a few thousand each year, but for people earning a lot of money it is irrelevant .

Having a tax cut from 39% down to 33% however made a huge difference.

Either way though, I don't want a tax cut. I want a good healthcare system, education system, law and order, biosecurity, etc etc etc etc and each and every year these cost more so guess what, governments need more money anyway. And if they have a bigger surplus, then pay off some debt.

You should vote for a Government that promises these things.....oh wait...you probably did.

If this Government doesnt deliver what they promised (after two years) and is declaring huge surpluses, then it is clearly over taxing the people.

sir1963

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#2338100 16-Oct-2019 13:32

Mahon:

sir1963:

Mahon:

ajobbins:
Mahon:. NZ doesnt automatically adjust this annually like Australia does.

Australia does not adjust brackets annually either. The only thing I can think of that's adjusted annually (twice annually in fact) is age pension payments, which are indexed to either CPI or wage growth index, whichever is higher.

Anyways, all tax cuts do is to correct this creep a little....all governments/parties do it.

Actually the tax cuts have benefitted the wealthy.

The could index the brackets and push each bracket up a few thousand each year, but for people earning a lot of money it is irrelevant .

Having a tax cut from 39% down to 33% however made a huge difference.

Either way though, I don't want a tax cut. I want a good healthcare system, education system, law and order, biosecurity, etc etc etc etc and each and every year these cost more so guess what, governments need more money anyway. And if they have a bigger surplus, then pay off some debt.

You should vote for a Government that promises these things.....oh wait...you probably did.

If this Government doesnt deliver what they promised (after two years) and is declaring huge surpluses, then it is clearly over taxing the people.

I have actually voted differently the last 3 elections.

I am also very realistic about time frames. For example, you want more builders, if you start today increasing the number of apprenticeships then the results are 3-4 years away.

Complaining a government has not done miracles in 2 years is simply unrealistic, and yes Labour did set its self up for failure promising a miracle in housing, it was always at a minimum going to take 5+ years before anything meaningful was going to be seen.

tdgeek

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#2338105 16-Oct-2019 13:41

Mahon:

If this Government doesnt deliver what they promised (after two years) and is declaring huge surpluses, then it is clearly over taxing the people.

I don't recall them declaring a huge surplus. That declaration is the Budget. What actually happened is the economy, wages paid and wages increases performed in excess of what was budgeted, and as always, conservatively budgeted. After that fact, which is now, these funds will be out to use. They may bring forward stuff or they may hold onto in case the GFC arrives. In which case they will need to out money back into the economy which is how you manage a recession. Basic stuff, no secrets, no conspiracy theory.

Its wrong to suggest that they budgeted for a large surplus, achieved it, and are hanging onto it. You got the wrong party.

GV27

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#2339709 17-Oct-2019 12:39

sir1963:

Complaining a government has not done miracles in 2 years is simply unrealistic, and yes Labour did set its self up for failure promising a miracle in housing, it was always at a minimum going to take 5+ years before anything meaningful was going to be seen.

They promised miracles in almost every policy area and delivered zero. You might call that 'setting yourself up for failure'. Others might say that promising things you have no capability or ability to deliver to win government is stealing an election.

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