NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3124964 8-Sep-2023 12:19

sen8or:

Its a bit like a builder pointing at a crooked wall going, well, its pretty straight compared to the one that Joe Bloggs put up......

If all the global builders built it the same. The context is that the builder can choose, but the world was blown off course by Covid and Ukraine

GV27

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#3124994 8-Sep-2023 13:39

tdgeek

Bold 1

Pandemic and Ukraine were huge, so I disagree 100%

tdgeek:

Bold 3

Maybe they will be better, you can only look at who in the past was excellent and who now is (National Ministers/leaders). Thats a massive gulf. Perhaps you meant doesn't instead of does? does mean I am automatically. If so, my first sentence in Bold 3 applies. John Key/Bill English vs Chris Luxon and Nicola Willis. And thats before they started releasing promises that everyone is saying are full of holes, etc. Its not even a contest. Possibly why voters are escaping to the minor parties, and who may have a huge say going forward.

The UK has had an energy crisis off the back of the war in Ukraine when gas prices went through the roof. We didn't. China had a massive shutdown of factories and their credit markets are on the verge of collapse thanks huge issues with their middle class. The US has 30 year mortgage terms so are insulted from massive rate hikes. We are not.

We dropped LVRs during Covid and offered banks cheap money for lending at the same time as we were trying to tell people they were spending too much. All unnecessary. Inflation in NZ was on the way up before tanks rolled into Ukraine. All have literally nothing to do with how other countries responded to Covid or Ukraine. You can't just keep dismissing the problems that were a mess of our own making because other people had problems too.

"Everyone is saying is full of holes" - Sorry, is it 'everyone' or is it just the people you listen to that reinforce your beliefs on this? And even if they are wrong on some things, by 2017 logic, what you campaign on doesn't matter anyway because someone will defend you to the death for six years while you just flail and then eventually gaslight anyone who asks what happened to your flagship policies.

Still waiting for that Light Rail that was going to be finished in 2021. Any day now.

GV27

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#3124996 8-Sep-2023 13:42

tdgeek:

If all the global builders built it the same. The context is that the builder can choose, but the world was blown off course by Covid and Ukraine

Again, there were issues with governance, accountability and policy failure before Covid and our inflation issues were ramping up before Russia invaded Ukraine.

If you don't believe me, look at our inflation numbers for the December quarter before the war in Ukraine started.

mudguard

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#3125000 8-Sep-2023 13:59

quickymart:

I'm just back from a holiday in the South Island and noticed a lot of anti-Labour sentiment there. People aren't too enthused about National either - but Act seemed quite popular, especially in the farming areas I visited.

I travel around NZ constantly for work. Every time I see a political party sign on rural land I think I must look up the numbers employed by sector.

It can certainly look some signs are more popular than others. But then I realise in rural areas, for the number of signs I see it might represent not even 100 hundred people. So a mid sized school probably employs more people than a valley of farms.

Again I think it's a bit of a rural vs urban thing, but if every house put a political sign up (like it seems with a lot of farms) it might look completely different.

tdgeek

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#3125005 8-Sep-2023 14:22

GV27:

The UK has had an energy crisis off the back of the war in Ukraine when gas prices went through the roof. We didn't. China had a massive shutdown of factories and their credit markets are on the verge of collapse thanks huge issues with their middle class. The US has 30 year mortgage terms so are insulted from massive rate hikes. We are not.

We dropped LVRs during Covid and offered banks cheap money for lending at the same time as we were trying to tell people they were spending too much. All unnecessary. Inflation in NZ was on the way up before tanks rolled into Ukraine. All have literally nothing to do with how other countries responded to Covid or Ukraine. You can't just keep dismissing the problems that were a mess of our own making because other people had problems too.

"Everyone is saying is full of holes" - Sorry, is it 'everyone' or is it just the people you listen to that reinforce your beliefs on this? And even if they are wrong on some things, by 2017 logic, what you campaign on doesn't matter anyway because someone will defend you to the death for six years while you just flail and then eventually gaslight anyone who asks what happened to your flagship policies.

Still waiting for that Light Rail that was going to be finished in 2021. Any day now.

I guess Covid was no biggie. You mentioned earlier there are many global things that we get affected by. Correct. The global shutdown and production fallout and the resultant inflation, I take as far more serious than the reasonably frequent global issues that we all face. You dont but thats ok

Perhaps LVR's are the key to everything? Must be.

Yes, we have messes of our own making, decades and decades old, simple as that. Or it was a bunch of rises until 2017? yes, this is election year so best to infer that

Full of holes. Its in all median matter whose you read, economists as well. No, its not is it just the people you listen to that reinforce your beliefs on this?

Little bit gobsmacked that you appear to dismiss this, but thats ok, its election year.

Light Rail, yes didnt happen. No one has interested either, National included, so a bit of luck that didnt go ahead

because someone will defend you to the death for six years. I have no issue for what labour failed on. Mentioned that before more than a few times. But I dont live in a world where Im guided by the colour of my tattoo. Have you voted for National, Labour, and the Greens all your life? I have. Sometimes they are good or not so good, talk a lot and do nothing, etc, thats not limited to any party. National got thrown out, Labour will in a few weeks, but there is a bit more in it than inherent bias. Take the EQ's, National was farcical, it was a shocker, a real shocker. So on that, they could not run a Fish and Chip shop? Thats the theme here. National faced an issue of huge proportions and cost, and urgency. So Im fine if they got things wrong learning as they go, it will be better next EQ, and next pandemic.

Learnings. Or as some may say, excuses.

Back to the other part of the election, there are two parts

Bluntj

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#3125016 8-Sep-2023 15:13

Latest poll clearly indicates its Nationals to lose. Just hope its not a large majority.

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tdgeek

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#3125069 8-Sep-2023 18:07

Bluntj:

Latest poll clearly indicates its Nationals to lose. Just hope its not a large majority.

I feel that everyone on this thread knows its a National win. No issue. What interests me is the makeup. National/ACT or National/ACT/NZ First?

When I gave up on National 2017 I was going to vote NZF/NZF, primarily if Labour wins, to have Peters to hold them to account. Oops.. :-) In the end I voted Labour Labour, so you should not delete me from your Xmas card list! (well some can :-) )

On a more serious note my issue with National is Luxon and Willis. ACT do have "some" good ideas, but its essentially alt-right. Peters, well who knows.

Its possible that Peters could work with Labour. If Labour/Greens/Te Pati Maori/NZ First can make a deal. Hipkins says he wont work with Peters and vice versa (at least a commitment from Hipkins (even though he's on the back foot), but no commitment from Luxon... (thats a tad weak)

While its obvious that National will win, the makeup could be quite weird. If we value education, health, housing, infrastructure, climate change, its no issue as the winning parties (National and its partners) are not interested (which is historical) My issue is using ETS funds to fund tax cuts of $10 to low income singles. Thats bonkers as Greens have stated. Reduce public services by 8%, plund whatever else, but climate change is the next big thing, ignore that at your peril.

I will applaud the tax cuts for salary earners with kids, thats excellent. Better than GST free broccoli. Especially when the 12 labour statutes that National will roll back, well they wont

This election IMHO is the most interesting but also the most serious.

quickymart

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#3125155 8-Sep-2023 20:44

tdgeek:

Bluntj:

Latest poll clearly indicates its Nationals to lose. Just hope its not a large majority.

I feel that everyone on this thread knows its a National win. No issue. What interests me is the makeup. National/ACT or National/ACT/NZ First?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-labour-drops-in-new-poll-as-chris-hipkins-returns-to-wellington/WGKH6QDKUFCN3HE7FLKKLIXFFY/

If these poll results hold to Election Day, it's looking like National and Act all on their own. I may grit my teeth and make my first tactical vote ever this year - anything to keep Winston (who has been in cahoots with the anti-vaxx crowd - see here for more info) out of Parliament. I don't like Luxon but like Winston even less, although I fancy I read somewhere today that Luxon said he wouldn't work with him.

Also there's bs like this: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-promises-millions-in-compensation-to-vax-injured-and-people-mandated-out-of-work/3656DKDNVJE6HC6HBMNQFD27SE/

How many people are really "vaccine injured" in NZ? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? And as for compensating those mandated out of their jobs for refusing the vaccine, he can get stuffed.

gzt

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#3125164 8-Sep-2023 21:25

quickymart: I'm just back from a holiday in the South Island and noticed a lot of anti-Labour sentiment there. People aren't too enthused about National either - but Act seemed quite popular, especially in the farming areas I visited.

For a short time I was thinking ACT put up those extremely unpleasant something something RACIST! RACE! slogan billboards only in rural areas. Then I saw one or two in suburbs. That could be selection bias in my occasional shopping drives or just the order ACT erected them. I can't remember the actual slogan or maybe I don't want to.

quickymart

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#3125568 10-Sep-2023 10:46

Luxon has an...interesting interview on Q+A: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/09/10/qa-review-luxon-interview-train-wreck-crashes-into-school-bus-and-petting-zoo/

tdgeek

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#3125652 10-Sep-2023 17:39

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300967812/act-proposes-to-allow-builders-to-opt-out-of-council-building-consents

The ACT Party says it will allow builders to opt out of council building consents to improve the supply, quality and cost of housing.

Delete cost. I am all for moving forward and reducing compliance problems but not compliance itself, but if thats to reduce quality of the build, no thanks. You are just shifting the restoration cost from builders to owners, with I assume no insurance comeback. Say you can say the builders regs were stupid, so now the insurance companies pay?

I will give him this “Housing is still in crisis and Labour and National are equally responsible, it’s time to stop demand-side policies that aren’t working and set a target for supply,” he said.

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tdgeek

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#3125654 10-Sep-2023 17:43

quickymart:

Luxon has an...interesting interview on Q+A: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/09/10/qa-review-luxon-interview-train-wreck-crashes-into-school-bus-and-petting-zoo/

Is there a link to the video? I could not locate it

tdgeek

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#3125655 10-Sep-2023 17:48

Others can enlighten me

ACT calculated the country needed to build 51,000 homes annually for the next five years to meet demand, he said.

“We need to build like the boomers.

IIRC the Boomers bought existing homes as investments. No builds.

IIRC and please correct me, we already build 50 to 60k houses annually anyway? Thats where Kiwibuild was a farce, most of their builds, were builds anyway. Good idea (even though affordable housing had already expired) but dont build a Kiwibuild house that was already being built...

tdgeek

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#3125662 10-Sep-2023 18:52

Another day of farce in this election

National is still refusing to say which parts of what it calls the back office bureaucracy of government it would cut to fund its tax cuts.

But the Council of Trade Unions has done an analysis and found the pool of money they are proposing to cut from includes the courts system, passport processing, national emergency management and search and rescue funding.

National leader Christopher Luxon refused to answer our questions on what was off the table.

He walked off it seems. Make of it what you will.

Peters

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters made the claim that Māori are “not indigenous” while speaking at a public meeting in Nelson on Sunday.

“Here’s the rub if you are Māori. We’re not indigenous,” Peters told his supporters.

Technically he is probably correct, but this is not technically, its getting inches in the newspaper. (ok, 0's and 1's these days)

I cannot find an article to bag Labour in order to keep this post relevant and balanced. Until tomorrow or the next day, GST free broccoli dominates. Pity for me who grows my own, its bigger and fresher, and includes GST

This is borderline crazy, we all know that every 3 years its vote buying, thats human nature. But health, education, infrastructure, ciimate change/mitigation, still waiting

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3125712 11-Sep-2023 05:58

tdgeek:

Another day of farce in this election

National is still refusing to say which parts of what it calls the back office bureaucracy of government it would cut to fund its tax cuts.

But the Council of Trade Unions has done an analysis and found the pool of money they are proposing to cut from includes the courts system, passport processing, national emergency management and search and rescue funding.

The courts system is a joke. I've helped secure a few successful prosecutions resulting from theft in our street and each case has taken 2-3 years to get through the system, mostly because every time an offender fails to turn up, they are arrested and sent on their way again with a new court date. Rinse and repeat. If outstanding matters were dealt with right away, there would be significant savings in resources. This wastes the time of courts, police, victims, victim support etc. Plenty of potential to improve efficiency here. Of course, bullets are cheaper again.

I thought they keep increasing the price of passports to cover the cost of providing them?

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