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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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frankv
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  #1744495 20-Mar-2017 13:24
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Fred99:

 

frankv:

 

joker97:

 

on the news the other day, Apple's NZ tax payment for 2016 was $0.00000

 

 

Prezactly. My feeling is that if Apple pays no tax in NZ, they should get no benefit from the things that taxes provide. Like police protecting their stores, Customs processing their goods, courts protecting their IP, etc.

 

 

So NZ should pay tax in the US for selling burger beef, in the UK for selling lamb, and in China for selling milk powder?

 

IMO the "problem" - if there is one - is that Apple tend to not pay much tax at all - anywhere. On that basis, the most ripped-off of all is probably California.

 

 

You seem to have misconstrued Apple as a country.

 

So my answer is No... it is the *company* that is selling NZ beef in the US that should pay tax on their profits in the US.

 

I agree again... yes, the problem is that Apple has set themselves up to not pay any tax anywhere, except Ireland where they pay minimal tax.

 

 

 

 

frankv
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  #1744503 20-Mar-2017 13:38
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tdgeek:

 

I think Apple is an Irish company! Thats where they are corporate based and their dosh sits there or from there IIRC. They reckon they do oay their fair share of tax, bit maybe not to the US. And I assume the US tax laws make offshoring funds beneficial

 

 

Apple pays what tax it is legally obliged to pay. That is completely different from paying their fair share.

 

Apple has a deal with the Irish Govt... in return for building a factory in Ireland and employing a bunch of people, they would only pay tax on what is manufactured at that factory. Subsequently, they set up "Apple International", which is nominally headquartered in Ireland but whose board of directors has never actually met in Ireland. All other Apple companies pay sufficient fees to Apple International for "marketing" and "IP" and so on, so that those subsidiaries pay no tax. Apple International makes a huge profit, but pays no tax under the agreement with Ireland. Apple Ireland (running the factory), pays quite a lot of tax (relatively speaking).

 

 

sir1963
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  #1744530 20-Mar-2017 14:10
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

I think Apple is an Irish company! Thats where they are corporate based and their dosh sits there or from there IIRC. They reckon they do oay their fair share of tax, bit maybe not to the US. And I assume the US tax laws make offshoring funds beneficial

 

 

Apple pays what tax it is legally obliged to pay. That is completely different from paying their fair share.

 

Apple has a deal with the Irish Govt... in return for building a factory in Ireland and employing a bunch of people, they would only pay tax on what is manufactured at that factory. Subsequently, they set up "Apple International", which is nominally headquartered in Ireland but whose board of directors has never actually met in Ireland. All other Apple companies pay sufficient fees to Apple International for "marketing" and "IP" and so on, so that those subsidiaries pay no tax. Apple International makes a huge profit, but pays no tax under the agreement with Ireland. Apple Ireland (running the factory), pays quite a lot of tax (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a copy of an open letter I put on my Facebook page

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Apple.
I applaud you on many of your moral stances, equal rights for LGBT, your anti-racial discrimination , your push to remove child labour in 3rd world countries as well as your green initiatives. All these are highly commendable.

 

However, there is someone else who deserves that same treatment, the tax payer. It turns out that although you have done close on $5 Billion worth of business over the last decade in New Zealand, you have paid $0.00 in tax.

 

 

You have benefitted from NZs stable economy, our rule of law, our education system, our health system, our infrastructure, but you have contributed nothing back, and that SUCKS.

 

I know all that bulls!t about Apple paying every $ its legally obligated to, but what about your moral obligations ?

 

Do you really believe that you have less obligation than an elderly person working a few hours a week, a handicapped person who holds down a part time job, or someone in chronic pain waiting for an operation, yet goes to work every day while they wait. Because these people all pay MORE tax than you do. They contribute back to the country that benefits them. Despite their difficulties in life they contribute back via taxes to make other people, just like them, have slightly better lives.

 

Can you claim that ?, no, because you paid $0 the maximum you "legally" had to. Slavery was once legal too in the USA, that did not make it right though did it. Morals outweighed laws.

 

You can quote all the bulls!t you like about how much tax you pay elsewhere, you can manipulate poor tax laws as much as you like, you however have lost all moral high ground here in New Zealand. Claiming that "everyone else does it too" is the claim of a coward who tries to justify their behaviour not on and of its self, but based on the low standards of others. Apple can do much much better than this, well that's what I used to believe.

 

I can only do one thing, vote with my wallet. I have bought a LOT of Apple products over the years (starting with a Mac 512KE), but I can no longer do this.

 

My next computer is going to be a Linux computer, my next phone Android , I already have an Android based set to box for streaming from Netflix to complement my Apple TVs.

 

Apple will slowly be replaced in my household, item by item, until you are no longer part of our lives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MikeB4
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  #1744565 20-Mar-2017 15:21
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sir1963:

 

frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

I think Apple is an Irish company! Thats where they are corporate based and their dosh sits there or from there IIRC. They reckon they do oay their fair share of tax, bit maybe not to the US. And I assume the US tax laws make offshoring funds beneficial

 

 

Apple pays what tax it is legally obliged to pay. That is completely different from paying their fair share.

 

Apple has a deal with the Irish Govt... in return for building a factory in Ireland and employing a bunch of people, they would only pay tax on what is manufactured at that factory. Subsequently, they set up "Apple International", which is nominally headquartered in Ireland but whose board of directors has never actually met in Ireland. All other Apple companies pay sufficient fees to Apple International for "marketing" and "IP" and so on, so that those subsidiaries pay no tax. Apple International makes a huge profit, but pays no tax under the agreement with Ireland. Apple Ireland (running the factory), pays quite a lot of tax (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a copy of an open letter I put on my Facebook page

 

 

 

Dear Apple.
I applaud you on many of your moral stances, equal rights for LGBT, your anti-racial discrimination , your push to remove child labour in 3rd world countries as well as your green initiatives. All these are highly commendable.

 

However, there is someone else who deserves that same treatment, the tax payer. It turns out that although you have done close on $5 Billion worth of business over the last decade in New Zealand, you have paid $0.00 in tax.

 

You have benefitted from NZs stable economy, our rule of law, our education system, our health system, our infrastructure, but you have contributed nothing back, and that SUCKS.

 

I know all that bulls!t about Apple paying every $ its legally obligated to, but what about your moral obligations ?

 

Do you really believe that you have less obligation than an elderly person working a few hours a week, a handicapped person who holds down a part time job, or someone in chronic pain waiting for an operation, yet goes to work every day while they wait. Because these people all pay MORE tax than you do. They contribute back to the country that benefits them. Despite their difficulties in life they contribute back via taxes to make other people, just like them, have slightly better lives.

 

Can you claim that ?, no, because you paid $0 the maximum you "legally" had to. Slavery was once legal too in the USA, that did not make it right though did it. Morals outweighed laws.

 

You can quote all the bulls!t you like about how much tax you pay elsewhere, you can manipulate poor tax laws as much as you like, you however have lost all moral high ground here in New Zealand. Claiming that "everyone else does it too" is the claim of a coward who tries to justify their behaviour not on and of its self, but based on the low standards of others. Apple can do much much better than this, well that's what I used to believe.

 

I can only do one thing, vote with my wallet. I have bought a LOT of Apple products over the years (starting with a Mac 512KE), but I can no longer do this.

 

My next computer is going to be a Linux computer, my next phone Android , I already have an Android based set to box for streaming from Netflix to complement my Apple TVs.

 

Apple will slowly be replaced in my household, item by item, until you are no longer part of our lives.

 

     

 

 

 

you are addressing the wrong party. If Apple has paid in NZ all the tax that NZ law requires of it then it is the Government you need to lobby. If a company over pays what it is legally required to do the amount overpaid becomes a debt owed by the Crown to that company and will be refunded.




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

sir1963
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  #1744570 20-Mar-2017 15:35
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MikeB4:

 

sir1963:

 

frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

I think Apple is an Irish company! Thats where they are corporate based and their dosh sits there or from there IIRC. They reckon they do oay their fair share of tax, bit maybe not to the US. And I assume the US tax laws make offshoring funds beneficial

 

 

Apple pays what tax it is legally obliged to pay. That is completely different from paying their fair share.

 

Apple has a deal with the Irish Govt... in return for building a factory in Ireland and employing a bunch of people, they would only pay tax on what is manufactured at that factory. Subsequently, they set up "Apple International", which is nominally headquartered in Ireland but whose board of directors has never actually met in Ireland. All other Apple companies pay sufficient fees to Apple International for "marketing" and "IP" and so on, so that those subsidiaries pay no tax. Apple International makes a huge profit, but pays no tax under the agreement with Ireland. Apple Ireland (running the factory), pays quite a lot of tax (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a copy of an open letter I put on my Facebook page

 

 

 

Dear Apple.
I applaud you on many of your moral stances, equal rights for LGBT, your anti-racial discrimination , your push to remove child labour in 3rd world countries as well as your green initiatives. All these are highly commendable.

 

However, there is someone else who deserves that same treatment, the tax payer. It turns out that although you have done close on $5 Billion worth of business over the last decade in New Zealand, you have paid $0.00 in tax.

 

You have benefitted from NZs stable economy, our rule of law, our education system, our health system, our infrastructure, but you have contributed nothing back, and that SUCKS.

 

I know all that bulls!t about Apple paying every $ its legally obligated to, but what about your moral obligations ?

 

Do you really believe that you have less obligation than an elderly person working a few hours a week, a handicapped person who holds down a part time job, or someone in chronic pain waiting for an operation, yet goes to work every day while they wait. Because these people all pay MORE tax than you do. They contribute back to the country that benefits them. Despite their difficulties in life they contribute back via taxes to make other people, just like them, have slightly better lives.

 

Can you claim that ?, no, because you paid $0 the maximum you "legally" had to. Slavery was once legal too in the USA, that did not make it right though did it. Morals outweighed laws.

 

You can quote all the bulls!t you like about how much tax you pay elsewhere, you can manipulate poor tax laws as much as you like, you however have lost all moral high ground here in New Zealand. Claiming that "everyone else does it too" is the claim of a coward who tries to justify their behaviour not on and of its self, but based on the low standards of others. Apple can do much much better than this, well that's what I used to believe.

 

I can only do one thing, vote with my wallet. I have bought a LOT of Apple products over the years (starting with a Mac 512KE), but I can no longer do this.

 

My next computer is going to be a Linux computer, my next phone Android , I already have an Android based set to box for streaming from Netflix to complement my Apple TVs.

 

Apple will slowly be replaced in my household, item by item, until you are no longer part of our lives.

 

     

 

 

 

you are addressing the wrong party. If Apple has paid in NZ all the tax that NZ law requires of it then it is the Government you need to lobby. If a company over pays what it is legally required to do the amount overpaid becomes a debt owed by the Crown to that company and will be refunded.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but guess who does the lobbying about how tax laws get structured, its certainly not you and me.

Fred99
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  #1744576 20-Mar-2017 15:43
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Isn't this getting rather off-topic?

 

Back on topic, wasn't Trump going to offer reduced tax rates for organisations who repatriated profit from tax havens back to the USA?

 

That'll really p!ss off some tax haven economies I expect.  Actually out of all his promises, IMO that's probably one of the least lousy - though it may have dire complications for countries seeking to entice US investment - and like many US policies, seems to be a race for the bottom.

MikeB4
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  #1744604 20-Mar-2017 16:04
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If Mr Trump tries to pressure the NZ Government to spend more on defence I will have to dust off my old protest gear. While there is some new equipment our Forces need we don't need the US telling us what to spend. 




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Fred99
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  #1744608 20-Mar-2017 16:09
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MikeB4:

 

If Mr Trump tries to pressure the NZ Government to spend more on defence I will have to dust off my old protest gear. While there is some new equipment our Forces need we don't need the US telling us what to spend. 

 

 

PM me if that happens - I'll join you.

 

 

sir1963
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  #1744611 20-Mar-2017 16:09
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MikeB4:

 

If Mr Trump tries to pressure the NZ Government to spend more on defence I will have to dust off my old protest gear. While there is some new equipment our Forces need we don't need the US telling us what to spend. 

 

 

 

 

We just tell him that until US corporates pay their fair share of taxes we can't and won't.

 

And even then we say "No deal is better than a bad deal", so no we still won't spend more.

MikeB4
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  #1744613 20-Mar-2017 16:11
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sir1963:

 

MikeB4:

 

If Mr Trump tries to pressure the NZ Government to spend more on defence I will have to dust off my old protest gear. While there is some new equipment our Forces need we don't need the US telling us what to spend. 

 

 

 

 

We just tell him that until US corporates pay their fair share of taxes we can't and won't.

 

And even then we say "No deal is better than a bad deal", so no we still won't spend more.

 

 

 

 

good idea but then use the funds to buy it from China and to boost our Climate change responses.




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Fred99
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  #1744656 20-Mar-2017 17:36
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Came across another meme I quite like:

 

tdgeek
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  #1744824 20-Mar-2017 20:55
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frankv:

 

tdgeek:

 

I think Apple is an Irish company! Thats where they are corporate based and their dosh sits there or from there IIRC. They reckon they do oay their fair share of tax, bit maybe not to the US. And I assume the US tax laws make offshoring funds beneficial

 

 

Apple pays what tax it is legally obliged to pay. That is completely different from paying their fair share.

 

Apple has a deal with the Irish Govt... in return for building a factory in Ireland and employing a bunch of people, they would only pay tax on what is manufactured at that factory. Subsequently, they set up "Apple International", which is nominally headquartered in Ireland but whose board of directors has never actually met in Ireland. All other Apple companies pay sufficient fees to Apple International for "marketing" and "IP" and so on, so that those subsidiaries pay no tax. Apple International makes a huge profit, but pays no tax under the agreement with Ireland. Apple Ireland (running the factory), pays quite a lot of tax (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

 

Cheers for that. Good insight on my base knowledge. But its a good deal for IRE and Apple?

tdgeek
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  #1744825 20-Mar-2017 20:59
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Fred99:

 

Isn't this getting rather off-topic?

 

Back on topic, wasn't Trump going to offer reduced tax rates for organisations who repatriated profit from tax havens back to the USA?

 

That'll really p!ss off some tax haven economies I expect.  Actually out of all his promises, IMO that's probably one of the least lousy - though it may have dire complications for countries seeking to entice US investment - and like many US policies, seems to be a race for the bottom.

 

 

Lousy? I like the tax cuts to help the people, that the country cannot afford. Or too give tax cuts then whip em back for Trumpcare. Nothing is free. More savings, less coverage, pick one.

Fred99
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  #1744914 20-Mar-2017 22:09
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Isn't this getting rather off-topic?

 

Back on topic, wasn't Trump going to offer reduced tax rates for organisations who repatriated profit from tax havens back to the USA?

 

That'll really p!ss off some tax haven economies I expect.  Actually out of all his promises, IMO that's probably one of the least lousy - though it may have dire complications for countries seeking to entice US investment - and like many US policies, seems to be a race for the bottom.

 

 

Lousy? I like the tax cuts to help the people, that the country cannot afford. Or too give tax cuts then whip em back for Trumpcare. Nothing is free. More savings, less coverage, pick one.

 

 

Don't disagree - I said "one of the least lousy".

 

Much lousier (IMO) was sticking it to the working class on repeal and no alternative to the ACA, increasing expenditure by 9% on the already formidable world dominant US war-machine and financing it by cuts to environmental protection/governance,  ad nauseum.

jarledb
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  #1744947 21-Mar-2017 00:21
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joker97:

 

on the news the other day, Apple's NZ tax payment for 2016 was $0.00000

 

 

So GST isn't a tax?




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